Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration • Hacker News Board

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#41

Post by RetroTechie » Mon, Sep 18, 2023, 6:07 PM UTC

myshpa wrote: post #24

jvm___ wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money is in growing saplings of white-pine, the ones commercial re-planters will buy - because they grow fast and can be turned into toilet paper in 25(?) years. Growing saplings of local 'slow' growing, non-harvestable species doesn't make you $$$. "In essence, forest nurseries tended to maintain a limited inventory of a select few species, electing to prioritize those valued for commercial timber production ove…

Maybe we should plant seeds, same as nature does. Dozens of different seeds per m2, nature would choose what'd survive and flourish. An example of a forest farm planted with the same approach: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ST9NyHf09M

I recall some initiative (in Africa, iirc) where locals would collect seeds of random herbs, shrubs, trees etc, mix those up & pack into seed bombs.

Then others who travel around for their work, would toss those in random places. From bicycle thrown some distance from roadside, or a bush pilot dropping some during flight, etc.

Basically as many different seeds in as many different places as possible. Then let nature do its thing.

Note this was still mostly local. So not introducing invasive species from other side of the globe. Just helping native species to spread a bit further & faster.

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#42

Post by greenie_beans » Mon, Sep 18, 2023, 6:10 PM UTC

erikhopf wrote: post #19

There are companies like Terraformation that have been doing this for a while. Beyond the biodiversity angle, seed banking seems to be very important to the long term success of regrowth projects.

i invested in their republic.co fundraising: https://republic.com/terraformation

but then did more research, because i've been interested in forestry for a while and was geniunely curious and wanted to understand my investment more.

i pulled my investment once i learned that these sort of projects don't actually work. terraformation targets land in areas that aren't meant to be forests. also decided to pull it because i don't completely understand the space. (sure, "planting trees will solve climate change" seems easy enough and makes me feel good because "i'm planting trees!" but nah, not really, let's maybe rethink this...this is coming from somebody who spends a lot of time in the woods and finds trees to be an important part of my life.)

this person researches this space: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=DbjysqUAAAAJ&hl=en

this is one of the bigger studies: https://scholar.google.com/citations?view_op=view_citation&h...

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#43

Post by freedude » Mon, Sep 18, 2023, 6:13 PM UTC

myshpa wrote: post #24

jvm___ wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money is in growing saplings of white-pine, the ones commercial re-planters will buy - because they grow fast and can be turned into toilet paper in 25(?) years. Growing saplings of local 'slow' growing, non-harvestable species doesn't make you $$$. "In essence, forest nurseries tended to maintain a limited inventory of a select few species, electing to prioritize those valued for commercial timber production ove…

Maybe we should plant seeds, same as nature does. Dozens of different seeds per m2, nature would choose what'd survive and flourish. An example of a forest farm planted with the same approach: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ST9NyHf09M

The same problem exists at the seed level. Who is collecting the 2 trillion seeds (50% germination rate)?

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#44

Post by kmeisthax » Mon, Sep 18, 2023, 6:23 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #11

ccooffee wrote: post #4

Someone logged a 500 hectare plot in Borneo. They split this into 125 sections and planted 0, 1, 4, or 16 "tree species that are frequently targeted for logging". After 20 years, satellite imagery shows that the more tree species you planted, the more recovered the land appears to be. I'm left wondering: 1. Why did they plant only tree species that are frequently targeted for logging? This makes the whole experiment…

> Why did they plant only tree species that are frequently targeted for logging? This makes the whole experiment very suspect. The linked article talks a lot about restoring forests, but why restrict the tree species to those that are profitable to log? Because that is what private land owners will do, they'll want to plant primarily what they can sell. This research likely intended to reduce the immediate damage fro…

Interestingly enough, this is also part of the reason for Canada's horrible wildfires a few months back: https://pluralistic.net/2023/09/16/murder-offsets/#pulped-an...

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#45

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Sep 18, 2023, 6:32 PM UTC

swader999 wrote: post #31

atourgates wrote: post #25

I did a quick look to see if this only worked in tropical forests, or if this would be true in, say, Western North American forests. I didn't really find an answer. A study[1] in Virgina found that planting multiple varieties of trees was beneficial because it allowed the variety that was most suitable for that location to thrive, and survive problems that might affect other varieties. A study[2] in Washington State…

BC can have three our four species in play on the coast, interior and east typically has pine and spruce. You could argue for balsam but that is crap wood and it grows back on its own typically. I don't know about tropical reforestation, but in Canada the notion that we are replanting with only mono species isn't true. They leave seed trees standing and source cones directly from the logged blocks. It's very well don…

[deleted]

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#46

Post by hinkley » Mon, Sep 18, 2023, 6:36 PM UTC

atourgates wrote: post #25

I did a quick look to see if this only worked in tropical forests, or if this would be true in, say, Western North American forests. I didn't really find an answer. A study[1] in Virgina found that planting multiple varieties of trees was beneficial because it allowed the variety that was most suitable for that location to thrive, and survive problems that might affect other varieties. A study[2] in Washington State…

Suzanne Simard has a bunch of chemical analysis that says yes, and most of her testing was in the PNW and western Canada (BC and... Alberta?)

A lot of the other literature on the complex relationship of soils and trees (and trees and trees via soil life) were instigated by her observations.

She was trying to get NW foresters to stop bathing everything in herbicides before replanting clearcuts. They always struggled more than anticipated.

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#47

Post by myshpa » Mon, Sep 18, 2023, 6:42 PM UTC

freedude wrote: post #43

myshpa wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we should plant seeds, same as nature does. Dozens of different seeds per m2, nature would choose what'd survive and flourish. An example of a forest farm planted with the same approach: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ST9NyHf09M

The same problem exists at the seed level. Who is collecting the 2 trillion seeds (50% germination rate)?

It's a similar problem but on a smaller scale (it's easier/cheaper to collect & spread seeds than grow & plant the seedlings).

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#48

Post by rcostin2k2 » Mon, Sep 18, 2023, 6:46 PM UTC

swader999 wrote: post #31

atourgates wrote: post #25

I did a quick look to see if this only worked in tropical forests, or if this would be true in, say, Western North American forests. I didn't really find an answer. A study[1] in Virgina found that planting multiple varieties of trees was beneficial because it allowed the variety that was most suitable for that location to thrive, and survive problems that might affect other varieties. A study[2] in Washington State…

BC can have three our four species in play on the coast, interior and east typically has pine and spruce. You could argue for balsam but that is crap wood and it grows back on its own typically. I don't know about tropical reforestation, but in Canada the notion that we are replanting with only mono species isn't true. They leave seed trees standing and source cones directly from the logged blocks. It's very well don…

They grow faster but weaker, with lower density (cf. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.foreco.2018.07.045)

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#49

Post by voisin » Mon, Sep 18, 2023, 6:46 PM UTC

swader999 wrote: post #31

atourgates wrote: post #25

I did a quick look to see if this only worked in tropical forests, or if this would be true in, say, Western North American forests. I didn't really find an answer. A study[1] in Virgina found that planting multiple varieties of trees was beneficial because it allowed the variety that was most suitable for that location to thrive, and survive problems that might affect other varieties. A study[2] in Washington State…

BC can have three our four species in play on the coast, interior and east typically has pine and spruce. You could argue for balsam but that is crap wood and it grows back on its own typically. I don't know about tropical reforestation, but in Canada the notion that we are replanting with only mono species isn't true. They leave seed trees standing and source cones directly from the logged blocks. It's very well don…

Roughly where are you in BC? I am in Cranbrook and haven’t seen the seed trees left standing in logged blocks but maybe I’ve missed them somehow.

Isn’t part of the issue that historically there would’ve been more deciduous trees that acted as natural fire breaks and now loggers only are allowed to replant coniferous?

Re: Replanting logged forests with diverse seedlings accelerates restoration

#50

Post by voisin » Mon, Sep 18, 2023, 6:48 PM UTC

hosh wrote: post #33

atourgates wrote: post #25

I did a quick look to see if this only worked in tropical forests, or if this would be true in, say, Western North American forests. I didn't really find an answer. A study[1] in Virgina found that planting multiple varieties of trees was beneficial because it allowed the variety that was most suitable for that location to thrive, and survive problems that might affect other varieties. A study[2] in Washington State…

There’s a more thoughtful way of designing this. In the permaculture world, these would be called “guilds”. Species are selected with an understanding of canopy layers (so that plants don’t compete for sunlight and can still fill in spaces at each canopy layer), and ecological function (such as, nitrogen fixer, dynamic accumulators, pollinator attractors, habitats, etc) If you randomly mix up species in temperate for…

I’d love to see a resource where someone could select their location and have example guilds like this provided. Every time I’ve looked it seemed like the only way to find out was to take a permaculture design course which is well beyond the limits of my interest.