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Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

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Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#91
post #87
post #66

I really wish them to succeed. Imagine centuries from now, a future civilisation where human-inflicted cruelty towards billions and billions of sentient beings is ended...

Do you think animals in the wild are being cruel to each other when they eat them?

Yes? What nonstandard non-dictionary definition of "cruel" do you use, that would not apply to eating something alive?

(And presumably also does not describe what happens in factory farming, which is the actual topic at hand, and which wildlife behavior has nothing to do with)

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#92
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because mushrooms are NOT "super high in protein". A comparable serving of beef has about 12x the amount of protein as mushrooms.

This. Beans, lentils and friends if you're after vegetable protein.

This reads like your friends are not made of meat.

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#93
post #87
post #66

I really wish them to succeed. Imagine centuries from now, a future civilisation where human-inflicted cruelty towards billions and billions of sentient beings is ended...

Do you think animals in the wild are being cruel to each other when they eat them?

Yes- it’s pretty messed up seeing those wealthy carnivore animals systematically breed, cage and murder billions of the other animals just so it can be conveniently purchased on-demand at their animal grocery store.

Factory farming is pretty messed up. We like to paint a pretty picture of a pasture, and I actually do get to see that in the midwest US, but a lot of the meat people buy does come from horrible conditions.

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#94
post #29
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meat tastes good. Mushrooms taste good, but in a different way. You can want a perfect world, but it will never exist. Like it or don't, solving meat consumption and its effects on the planet is something we'll have to do. That probably involves a meaty substitute for meat.

Does meat actually taste good though? When has anyone ordered unseasoned chicken? Salt and spices taste good.

> Does meat actually taste good though?

It does to me -- but I think there's a good point here (even if unintentional):

Meats have _textures_ that vegetables don't have. Someone else mentioned how the Impossible Burger replicates "the bloody meat texture". For many folks, that's going to be as important as the taste.

I love vegetables but sometimes I just want a hamburger -- or kung pao chicken, or lamb kadhi, or many other dishes where I _like_ the taste and texture of the meat, and I don't have a better replacement.

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#95
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the benefits for us: all the space dedicated to pasture could be dedicated to wildlife or outdoor recreation, and all the high-density facilities fouling air and waterways could be closed. If it works for fish, we could stop scouring the ocean like an Old Testament-style god angry with our creation. Even the food snobs would be happy, since responsible wildlife management practices would yield a certai…

Space that is currently dedicated to pasture is already currently dedicated to wildlife. In fact, grazing cattle on land serves to rejuvenate the land, since the cattle's hoove's serve as little plows, and the cows walk around and poop and pee, which fertilizes the land and allows for insects and bugs to thrive, which helps the bird population, and the little rodents.

[flagged]

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#96
Key takeaway paragraphs for me:

"But roller bottles aren’t just problematic due to their miniscule output. They’re also expensive and wasteful, according to numerous biopharma and cultivated-meat industry sources. Each flask is made from sterile, single-use plastic, which must be discarded or recycled once it has generated its 2 to 3 grams of tissue. Given that an ordinary 2-liter plastic drink bottle can easily weigh 30 grams, Upside’s current production method likely produces plastic waste more than 10 times faster than it makes meat. “Can you imagine how much landfill waste you’re actually generating?” says one former employee, who was disturbed by the volume of single-use plastic being used at Upside.

Roller bottles also require a lot of tending by human beings, says David Humbird, an independent analyst and bioprocess scale-up expert and author of a comprehensive economic assessment of cultivated meat. Before it can produce its 2 to 3 grams of tissue, each bottle will need to be individually prepared, filled with cells, then periodically opened and filled with new media over the course of several days—a painstaking process that staffers must repeat under sterile conditions with hundreds of bottles before finished cell sheets can be carefully squeegeed out. It’s an approach that requires many hours of work by trained scientists to yield a tiny serving of food.

But the chicken served at Bar Crenn uses multiple animal-derived ingredients. The roller bottles in which the tissues are grown are coated with porcine gelatin to help the cells stick to the plastic surface. An FDA safety dossier submitted by Upside also confirms that it might use bovine serum to grow its cells. The current employee also said that bovine serum—derived from the blood of adult cattle—is being used in the roller bottle process for Bar Crenn."

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#98
post #24

I'm not sure about chicken cells but my experience with growing human cells (WI-38 fibroblasts)[1] is that they want to grow in a monolayer. The way we grew them normally was in those roller bottles [2]: you have some tissue culture medium in the bottle (containing fetal calf serum, which is still required to grow mammalian cells AFAIK, another reason most of these companies can't do what they say) and other componen…

>when cells are touching each other, they stop dividing.

I might be very stupid, but if this is a thing, how do we grow? Aren't, for example, bone cells always touching other cells?

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#99
post #96

Key takeaway paragraphs for me: "But roller bottles aren’t just problematic due to their miniscule output. They’re also expensive and wasteful, according to numerous biopharma and cultivated-meat industry sources. Each flask is made from sterile, single-use plastic, which must be discarded or recycled once it has generated its 2 to 3 grams of tissue. Given that an ordinary 2-liter plastic drink bottle can easily weig…

I'm not sure the plastic use is super relevant at lab scale, as someone who has worked in lab cell culture the amount of plastic waste is enormous from all the single use individually packed sterile equipment. However, I don't think anyone is planning to scale up plastic single use tissue culture equipment to make food, its just not going to make economic sense.

I can't comment on if they are claiming the current product is made in a scalable fashion or in a lab.

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#100
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only we subsidised this as much as we subside meat production. Or perhaps subsidise nothing. Either way it’s not yet a level playing field.

Why do you think we subsidize meat production? Isn't it sugar and soybeans that we subsidize?

In the west we subsidize water which indirectly subsidizes beef production.
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