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Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites
371–380 of 402 posts
Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites
#372Earlier quoted context omitted.
i am not sure i understand what your argument is, or what you think mine is. your last sentence suggests that you don't believe that anyone can just undercut the big supermarket chains in austria. which is what i also don't believe. but your first sentence is saying something different, so that has me confused.
What will happen if a hardware store starts selling bread? Austrian grocery cartel thugs will show up and break his legs? Please explain in detail why you believe that coffee shops cannot sell bread without a multi-year planning and approval process. It's bs that anyone not in the supposed cartel can suddenly make huge profits on food by undercutting. Gross margins on food are almost certainly very low. THERE IS NO C…
first of all, i agree with you. THERE IS NO CARTEL. there is no need to shout. the cartel is not the problem. aldi from germany successfully entered the market in austria with their hofer chain, and lidl is a german supermarket chain too.
but i also do not agree with you that it would be trivial to sell food anywhere.
brand protection laws here (i found a source for germany, but i believe that this should be EU wide, otherwise it would be in violation of EU laws) do not allow you to sell a branded product without the permission of the brand owner.
so in order to sell something you have to negotiate with the brand. if you are a small shop you will not get the same volume prices as the big chains because you have no bargaining power. and if you already sell something else you will have to convince them that doing that combining that is a good idea. (i also think that you may need a license to sell food alongside other products, which may be denied. you can't just sell everything anywhere). the brands may also not be happy that you undercut the large chains they sell to as it may push them to demand lower prices from the brand in order to compete.
i also found one article that claims that "Territorial Supply Constraints" would allow brands to segment the EU along the internal borders and demand different prices per region.
it looks like that may be the real problem.
and while it may be possible to buy the products from a third party within the EU, doing so may may be difficult at scale and make it more difficult to undercut prices. and also the complicated legal landscape risks costly lawsuits, even if you would win.
why aren't the existing german chains in austria undercutting others? probably because they buy directly from the brand and so the brand can dictate where they sell.
Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites
#373The most amazing thing is the suggestion of price collusion given the 1-cent changes in price from store to store that perfectly match one another.
Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites
#374I lived in Austria and in Germany and it's 100% true, prices in supermarkets are significantly higher in Austria even for products produced in Austria. The reasons IMO are: * less price sensitivity: German people are extremely price sensitive, they discuss and compare prices all the time. In Austria people care way less about this on average. Supermarkets take advantage * higher logistics costs: population density in…
The same in the Netherlands vs Germany. I live on the border. And often German grocery stores have (organic) vegetables, produced in the Netherlands, for much less than these same vegetables cost in the Netherlands. Part is VAT, which is higher in the Netherlands, but I'm confident most is due to the fact Dutch people will simply pay more than Germans.
But on the other hand it seems that produce is of higher quality in NL on average than in DE.
Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites
#375As an Austrian dev and consumer who has closely followed this throughout the year: it's soo frustrating to see how we're ripped off for no good reason, but nothing changes and nobody cares. Hats off to Mario for sticking with the topic and not losing his mind over this infuriating madness.
> it's soo frustrating to see how we're ripped off for no good reason It isn’t for no good reason, the prices are higher for the exact same reason they are lower in Germany: the price set allows the company to make the most money. Whether prices are high or low, the reason is always exactly the same: it makes the most money.
so, just to reiterate: for no good reason
Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites
#376Earlier quoted context omitted.
What will happen if a hardware store starts selling bread? Austrian grocery cartel thugs will show up and break his legs? Please explain in detail why you believe that coffee shops cannot sell bread without a multi-year planning and approval process. It's bs that anyone not in the supposed cartel can suddenly make huge profits on food by undercutting. Gross margins on food are almost certainly very low. THERE IS NO C…
first of all, i agree with you. THERE IS NO CARTEL. there is no need to shout. the cartel is not the problem. aldi from germany successfully entered the market in austria with their hofer chain, and lidl is a german supermarket chain too. but i also do not agree with you that it would be trivial to sell food anywhere. brand protection laws here (i found a source for germany, but i believe that this should be EU wide,…
>no bargaining power
Your bargaining power is that there are a dozen other food suppliers and tens of thousands of other common food items you could sell instead. No store is going to cry and go bankrupt because they can't sell Ding Dongs. Also, there are chains of hardware stores, chains of coffee shops, chains of everything which have additional bargaining power. And if the selling price is so high then everyone is going to be eager to push as much through the pipe as possible while the getting is good.
>the brands may also not be happy
Too bad. There is no shortage of food brands. This is not North Korea we're talking about.
>why aren't the existing german chains in austria undercutting others?
Probably because to do so would mean giving up all profit. That may in fact be illegal predatory pricing--using their position in the market to squeeze out less solvent competitors.
Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites
#377What are the legal ramifications grocery stores can realistically get into ? Are there any examples of stores getting in trouble in the past? Did it actually solve anything ? Obviously the stores are not scared of any ramifications.
What if grocery stores operate on very, very low profit margins, on the order of low single digit percentages, and hence if their vendors (including employees) increase prices, then they also have to increase prices (or else they go out of business), and that is why multiple grocery store businesses increase prices at the same time (because Nestle/Mondelez/etc are increasing prices for all of their buyers at the same…
Just to clarify, are you saying this is the excuse shops can use in front of a judge? or that OPs conclusion is actually wrong, and there is no collusion among shops to start with, just fair and square supply and demand ?
Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites
#378Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems like we have all of the tools necessary to take a picture of a segment of store shelf and have the price data extracted from the photo, associated with the item itself, cross referenced, etc, and then show you an overlay with the best deals highlighted.
It's illegal to scrape databases in the EU.
huh? Is that real?
Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites
#379Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is unreasonable to infer what the original author has said he has not implied.
You didn't say that you didn't imply it until after I brought it up. In fact, you never would have said that unless and until I raised the issue. So I accept your apology.
Maybe look at who you just replied to there?
Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites
#380Earlier quoted context omitted.
> that prices comparison is going to need per gram pricing Not entirely sure what you mean here, but we do have per gram pricing requirements (expressed in £/KG). EDIT: oh you mean that shrinkflation is so bad that £/gram will make more sense. Hah yeah The trouble is that grocers have figured out that if you fool the population in to using a 'loyalty' card, you can make everything a 'promotional price' and avoid the…
Lidl/Aldi don't put their prices online, I think? But also, perhaps they change their prices more rapidly?
My local Aldi (London) has e-ink shelf end labels now, so they are at least preparing to change prices more rapidly.