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Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

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Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#231

Post by masswerk »

mrcode007 wrote: post #104
masswerk wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, I wouldn't say that Austria is pro-Russian. Neither official politics, nor the majority of the people (with the notable exception of the infamous FPÖ). Then, it's mostly about infrastructure. While the western parts of the country have broad access to renewable energy, like hydropower, the eastern parts heavily depend on natural gas, with not much of an alternative as far as infrastructure goes. We may also po…

I’ll help you with your research: Ex-Austrian minister who danced with Putin at wedding lands Russian oil job https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/02/former-austria...

Notably, this happened before any of these events, and to help you with Austrian history, the entire "family" has been since dismissed. (Kneissl is now a blogger in Russia, far from Austria or its politics.)

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#232

Post by jsdwarf »

lxgr wrote: post #167
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it shows the power of smart, tech-capable citizens Consumers in Austria who travel abroad/to Germany often, already knew they were getting scammed for a long time now, but couldn't prove it and now they can, so the more important question is what will come out of it, as the data shows the big retailers clearly cooperating on price fixing. My guess, nothing, as the government regulators who are supposed to watch over…

> Consumers in Austria who travel abroad/to Germany often, already knew they were getting scammed for a long time now, but couldn't prove it and now they can How was it not blatantly obvious that something is off if the exact same product from an Austrian manufacturer (not owned an international conglomerate) is consistently 20-30% cheaper in a grocery store in Berlin than it is in Vienna, minutes away from the facto…

Its very common for people from Salzburg/Austria to shop in the Berchtesgaden region, however with bigger distances from the border this doesn't make sense.

Re Austrian products cheaper abroad than in Austria - there was the curious case of a beer drink from Gösser, that was sold cheaper 700km away from the brewery in Berlin than in the town of the brewery itself: https://twitter.com/KernNiko/status/1692954540293947408/phot.... Gösser argued they wanted to promote the drink in Germany against local competition and that this was a temporary price drop.

Again, Germany made a smarter move by developing beer powder concentrate (https://www.wa.de/verbraucher/bierpulver-klosterbrauerei-neu... German). This allows them to remove the 90% water share of the beer when exporting it to Asia and still sell it as "brewed in Germany".

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#233

Post by KeplerBoy »

hathym wrote: post #222
KeplerBoy wrote: post #197

As an Austrian dev and consumer who has closely followed this throughout the year: it's soo frustrating to see how we're ripped off for no good reason, but nothing changes and nobody cares. Hats off to Mario for sticking with the topic and not losing his mind over this infuriating madness.

greed and pursuit of increased profits is a good reason

Sure, those are the reasons, but I don't believe in Austrian exceptionalism.

Really curious what's special about the market here that allows companies to exploit the people like this.

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#234

Post by switch007 »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #228

If it's like the UK, there is so much "shrinkflation" (reduction in product size [and cheapening of ingredients]) that prices comparison is going to need per gram pricing. Identical looking packs now have extra air gaps: inflated chocolate bar wrappers, ice-cream cones with a 1cm gap below the lid, butter cartons have a recessed base, packages that formerly had straight sides now taper, etc. ... lots of these "tricks…

> that prices comparison is going to need per gram pricing

Not entirely sure what you mean here, but we do have per gram pricing requirements (expressed in £/KG).

EDIT: oh you mean that shrinkflation is so bad that £/gram will make more sense. Hah yeah

The trouble is that grocers have figured out that if you fool the population in to using a 'loyalty' card, you can make everything a 'promotional price' and avoid the per-unit labelling requirements. They just show the £/KG price of the higher price. So now consumers can't easily compare. [0]

All of this can be avoided by just shopping at e.g. Aldi and Lidl, but I would not be surprised if even they succumb to the temptation of a loyalty-card-only pricing very soon. (Though they too have partaken in shrinkflation)

[0] An example https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/296117381 . "£3.00 / £10.71/kg", but clubcard price is £2.00

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#235

Post by dustfinger »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #198
jsdwarf wrote: post #195

Fellow Austrian here. Nice price comparison project, but the elephant in the room is that grocery store prices in Germany are 20-40% lower for the same product. Explanation from the supermarket chains are shady at best (more stores per capita compared to Germany, they are forced to buy from more expensive Austrian distributors etc). I heard similar things from Belgium (higher prices than in France) My point is: we ne…

Austria's real problem is that it's a bad business environment with high taxes and tons of regulation. It means that there are only a few players in that space that ultimately dominate it. Small companies could not even enter that space because the regulation does not give them any space to innovate (for instance free selection of products, other opening times).

>Austria's real problem is that it's a bad business environment with high taxes and tons of regulation.

I feel that Canada has a similar problem.

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#236

Post by mgbmtl »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #198
jsdwarf wrote: post #195

Fellow Austrian here. Nice price comparison project, but the elephant in the room is that grocery store prices in Germany are 20-40% lower for the same product. Explanation from the supermarket chains are shady at best (more stores per capita compared to Germany, they are forced to buy from more expensive Austrian distributors etc). I heard similar things from Belgium (higher prices than in France) My point is: we ne…

Austria's real problem is that it's a bad business environment with high taxes and tons of regulation. It means that there are only a few players in that space that ultimately dominate it. Small companies could not even enter that space because the regulation does not give them any space to innovate (for instance free selection of products, other opening times).

Smaller countries (by economy or by population) tend to have protectionist rules, otherwise they simply get absorbed by their (bigger) neighbouring countries. Historically, those protections weren't that much of an issue, but as bigger countries continue optimizing their systems at huge scale, smaller countries can't keep up (offer the same price/quality).

For example in the US, when TikTok became too popular, politicians quickly reacted to avoid having a major social network that was backed by a foreign country. Legitimately in the name of consumer protection, of course, but clearly also other interests. Funny how the US very selectively protects its consumers.

It's not great for the consumer (less competition/freedom), but ultimately it's about protecting local expertise to avoid being fully dependant on another region (obviously, sometimes this gets abused). Losing local expertise increases the brain-drain, since any skilled person will know that they won't get many good job options locally.

I live in Quebec/Canada, which has many rules in the name of consumer protection, but usually it's really about protecting local businesses without going against free trade agreements. I'm not a fan of isolationism, but winner-take-all types of scenarios, where no one can compete against foreign semi-monopolies hurt us in the long term. It's hard to find a good balance. An interesting take, in Quebec and in the EU, is seeing many laws that only apply above a certain scale.

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#237

Post by atdrummond »

iraqmtpizza wrote: post #199
OfSanguineFire wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only part I could have left out is the plain statement “Poland has still been hit by inflation, though.” That doesn’t even suggest calling for price controls. Yours was a kneejerk reaction.

In context it is very suggestive. Maybe you are incapable of inferences but other people are not, so I decided it was best to dispel that idea ahead of time.

It is unreasonable to infer what the original author has said he has not implied.

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#238

Post by gsich »

KeplerBoy wrote: post #197

As an Austrian dev and consumer who has closely followed this throughout the year: it's soo frustrating to see how we're ripped off for no good reason, but nothing changes and nobody cares. Hats off to Mario for sticking with the topic and not losing his mind over this infuriating madness.

Mostly because you have no choice.

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#239

Post by [deleted] »

fullstackchris wrote: post #200
KeplerBoy wrote: post #197

As an Austrian dev and consumer who has closely followed this throughout the year: it's soo frustrating to see how we're ripped off for no good reason, but nothing changes and nobody cares. Hats off to Mario for sticking with the topic and not losing his mind over this infuriating madness.

not austrian but I live in austria. at first I was like, okay, higher inflation post covid like everything else, but now at this point where I see prices still rising, it's starting to just feel like a blatant cash grab HOWEVER, i will add - what do people expect when you give everyone 500 extra EUR a year via this klima bonus? how is that supposed to reduce inflation? my guess is the grocery chains are leaning into…

[deleted]

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#240

Post by consp »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #155
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it shows the power of smart, tech-capable citizens Consumers in Austria who travel abroad/to Germany often, already knew they were getting scammed for a long time now, but couldn't prove it and now they can, so the more important question is what will come out of it, as the data shows the big retailers clearly cooperating on price fixing. My guess, nothing, as the government regulators who are supposed to watch over…

> Well, about 6 years ago, the 3 big telecom operators in Austria raised the prices together at the exact same time, and the government body in charge of overseeing these things said they have no proof that the 3 operators colluded together for price fixing and it could just be a coincidence, case closed. I would love a citation for that.

It's longer ago but they did it in the Netherlands: https://www.acm.nl/sites/default/files/old_publication/publi...

Years later they couldn't find any direct evidence but providers were subsequently only not-guilty if they could show long term planning. With a duo- or tripoly it's not hard to have fix your prices together. This especially happens in the high-entry cost markets like telecom.

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