Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods • Hacker News Board

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#41

Post by sokoloff » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 2:41 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #37

The real success in this area is the Impossible burger. It's made mostly from peas and soy, with heme added to produce the bloody meat texture. The heme is made in a fermentation process not much more complex than brewing. Impossible has no problems with volume production - they sell through Burger King and WalMart. Growth rate about 85%/year.

As a long-time meat eater, I find Impossible to be a passable substitute for ground beef in a lot of dishes.

If they can get the end user price under control, they could displace a whole lot of beef consumption. At the current price point, it’s not nearly worth it on a taste or economic value comparison with 80% ground beef.

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#42

Post by ddingus » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 2:41 AM UTC

parthdesai wrote: post #35

dpig_ wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Red meats taste good sans spices.

eh, you still need salt + pepper.

No, you don't. Well, maybe you do, but it can be prepared well and require none of those things.

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#43

Post by dlkf » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 2:44 AM UTC

pjot wrote: post #29

Loughla wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meat tastes good. Mushrooms taste good, but in a different way. You can want a perfect world, but it will never exist. Like it or don't, solving meat consumption and its effects on the planet is something we'll have to do. That probably involves a meaty substitute for meat.

Does meat actually taste good though? When has anyone ordered unseasoned chicken? Salt and spices taste good.

The fallacy here is pretty transparent. On the one hand, you’re saying meat ”doesn’t taste good” because it is usually not served in isolation. But on the other hand, you claim that seasoning tastes good, despite the fact that it is never served in isolation.

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#44

Post by NoZebra120vClip » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 2:48 AM UTC

sshine wrote: post #5

Why not just grow mushrooms? Their cells are meaty, super high in protein, and they already exist / the “tech” has already been developed! There is an extremely large selection, some with additional health benefits.

Livestock eats food that tastes good: grains, grasses, corn, protein-rich insects. You can discern a well-nourished animal by the way its meat tastes.

What do you feed to mushrooms?

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#45

Post by anonylizard » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 3:11 AM UTC

pjot wrote: post #29

Loughla wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meat tastes good. Mushrooms taste good, but in a different way. You can want a perfect world, but it will never exist. Like it or don't, solving meat consumption and its effects on the planet is something we'll have to do. That probably involves a meaty substitute for meat.

Does meat actually taste good though? When has anyone ordered unseasoned chicken? Salt and spices taste good.

Indians have figured out how to make vegetables taste very good (It helps India is perfect for growing spices)

But Indians still eat meat, the majority in fact.

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#46

Post by Loughla » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 3:14 AM UTC

pjot wrote: post #29

Loughla wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meat tastes good. Mushrooms taste good, but in a different way. You can want a perfect world, but it will never exist. Like it or don't, solving meat consumption and its effects on the planet is something we'll have to do. That probably involves a meaty substitute for meat.

Does meat actually taste good though? When has anyone ordered unseasoned chicken? Salt and spices taste good.

You haven't really understood what I said.

You can want one thing, but you have to live with the real thing.

Some people think meat tastes good, regardless of seasoning. Drawing attention to seasoning is just a red herring.

We need to figure out low-co2 meat. And seasonings.

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#47

Post by timeon » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 4:32 AM UTC

ethanbond wrote: post #36

pjot wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does meat actually taste good though? When has anyone ordered unseasoned chicken? Salt and spices taste good.

I really think the "you don't actually like meat" strategy is counterproductive to the cause of getting people comfortable with alternatives.

Maybe not good strategy but still really interesting question.

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#48

Post by Animats » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 4:35 AM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #41

Animats wrote: post #37

The real success in this area is the Impossible burger. It's made mostly from peas and soy, with heme added to produce the bloody meat texture. The heme is made in a fermentation process not much more complex than brewing. Impossible has no problems with volume production - they sell through Burger King and WalMart. Growth rate about 85%/year.

As a long-time meat eater, I find Impossible to be a passable substitute for ground beef in a lot of dishes. If they can get the end user price under control, they could displace a whole lot of beef consumption. At the current price point, it’s not nearly worth it on a taste or economic value comparison with 80% ground beef.

It seems more like they price it high because they can. The process isn't expensive. A 68,000 square foot plant makes a million pounds a month, says the company. It's not like lab-grown meat, which is a slow, expensive process.

Amusingly, Impossible's ground beef like product was getting rave reviews from prominent foodies at first. It first appeared only at expensive restaurants. Then they got Burger King to sell it. Only then was there criticism.

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#49

Post by spondylosaurus » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 4:46 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #48

sokoloff wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a long-time meat eater, I find Impossible to be a passable substitute for ground beef in a lot of dishes. If they can get the end user price under control, they could displace a whole lot of beef consumption. At the current price point, it’s not nearly worth it on a taste or economic value comparison with 80% ground beef.

It seems more like they price it high because they can. The process isn't expensive. A 68,000 square foot plant makes a million pounds a month, says the company. It's not like lab-grown meat, which is a slow, expensive process. Amusingly, Impossible's ground beef like product was getting rave reviews from prominent foodies at first. It first appeared only at expensive restaurants. Then they got Burger King to sell it…

You know how the working conditions in so many meatpacking plants are abysmal, like how Tyson Foods is always making headlines for some heinous shit? I wonder if conditions in Impossible plants are better by default. Fewer occupational hazards or whatever.

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#50

Post by ETH_start » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 5:27 AM UTC

Loughla wrote: post #10

sshine wrote: post #5

Why not just grow mushrooms? Their cells are meaty, super high in protein, and they already exist / the “tech” has already been developed! There is an extremely large selection, some with additional health benefits.

Meat tastes good. Mushrooms taste good, but in a different way. You can want a perfect world, but it will never exist. Like it or don't, solving meat consumption and its effects on the planet is something we'll have to do. That probably involves a meaty substitute for meat.

The only reasons to find ways to end consumption of natural meat are 1. to increase efficiency and 2. ethical concerns relating raising animals in confinement to slaughter and eat them.

The effects on the planet can be completely eliminated with massive expansion of nuclear and/or space-based electricity generation to power vertical farms that a) don't displace natural habitats and b) capture and recycle livestock's methane emissions along with other waste products.