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RustRover – A standalone Rust IDE

blog.jetbrains.com

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Re: RustRover – A standalone Rust IDE

#201

Post by lenkite »

cyberax wrote: post #57
perceptronas wrote: post #24

This IDE doesn't seem to differ from CLion with Rust plugin. I guess, its only about making Rust plugin paid from their side – which makes sense from their side. I hope they can deliver quality. On the other hand, they are notoriously slow to develop their IDEs. Features are super slow to be delivered, IDEs themselves are not really improved as well. They are focusing on things most don't care: Spaces, new UI project…

> On the other hand, they are notoriously slow to develop their IDEs. I found that IntelliJ IDEs for me are almost at the perfection level. I don't really need any new changes, except for simple incremental ones like supporting new languages. I've been using IntelliJ since 2003, and it's amazing how little my main workflows have changed since then.

Its looks like Jetbrains is migrating to an N IDE's for N languages approach - bloat up memory and disk so they can be paid more.

No point in buying Intellij Ultimate and installing language plugins. As is clear from this post, the language plugins will no longer see new features.

Now you need to purchase and start the IDE's for Rust, Go, C++, Python, etc. So if you are working in multiple language projects, you need $$$ purchase power. And then 64 GB RAM and several terabytes of hard disk space.

What a mess.

Re: RustRover – A standalone Rust IDE

#203

Post by highwaylights »

lenkite wrote: post #201
cyberax wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, they are notoriously slow to develop their IDEs. I found that IntelliJ IDEs for me are almost at the perfection level. I don't really need any new changes, except for simple incremental ones like supporting new languages. I've been using IntelliJ since 2003, and it's amazing how little my main workflows have changed since then.

Its looks like Jetbrains is migrating to an N IDE's for N languages approach - bloat up memory and disk so they can be paid more. No point in buying Intellij Ultimate and installing language plugins. As is clear from this post, the language plugins will no longer see new features. Now you need to purchase and start the IDE's for Rust, Go, C++, Python, etc. So if you are working in multiple language projects, you need…

This is my biggest problem with the JetBrains world. It should be one IDEA and a bunch of plugins (of which Java should be one). I don't know why I need X copies of the same tool with different config files.

Re: RustRover – A standalone Rust IDE

#204

Post by traceroute66 »

rochak wrote: post #187
traceroute66 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stuff like this makes me happy I left the JetBrains ecosystem years ago. Trouble is it depends what you program. For example if you're a Go coder, then JetBrains GoLand has no competition. Sure you might try VSCode with various extensions, but its not the same. GoLand enables you to be much more productive because of its first-class integration with Go. The only reason some people use VSCode instead of GoLand for G…

Go’s LSP (created by Go Team) is the best in class and super feature rich. I’d recommend trying out things before making claims about one thing being better than the other.

> Go’s LSP (created by Go Team) is the best in class and super feature rich. I’d recommend trying out things before making claims about one thing being better than the other.

Ahem, cough.

gopls is a PLS. Which Wikipedia gives us the definition of being:

programming language-specific features like code completion, syntax highlighting and marking of warnings and errors, as well as refactoring routines

PLS features are only the tip of the iceberg of the features that you get with GoLand which has a much richer integration with Go. Ranging from contextual menus, to configuration options to all sorts of other things.

I therefore retain my point that VSCode's only benefit over GoLand is its free.

Re: RustRover – A standalone Rust IDE

#205

Post by bornfreddy »

gjvc wrote: post #200
bornfreddy wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... Did you get some answers? :)

Only insofar is that there is less of a grand framework for the language analysis and manipulation, refactoring, and syntax and error highlighting than one might think. (I still find this hard to believe, but perhaps this was due to an impedance mismatch between me and my JB interlocutor.) I was under my own (pretty pedestrian) assumption that the secret sauce of JB IDES is/was the MPS system in which they are/were a…

Thank you for the extensive answer! Yes, I guess some code reuse would make sense, but when growing it is difficult to know which abstractoon makes sense, so from the business perspective it is often a better strategy to copy and adapt code, even if that means worse maintainability down the road.

Re: RustRover – A standalone Rust IDE

#206

Post by notpushkin »

0x457 wrote: post #191
notpushkin wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you get into more detail please? From my (brief) experience with your products I think the differences are indeed mostly in the plugins, apart from cosmetic / UX ones, like different keyboard shortcuts (which by the way never made sense to me). There's nothing wrong with selling sets of plugins by the way. I don't really get why it must be different IDEs though.

> There's nothing wrong with selling sets of plugins by the way. I don't really get why it must be different IDEs though. Uhm, I've tried using Ultimate for Java and Rust. It wasn't pleasant at all. Different IDEs make total sense to me.

What difficulties did you run into?

Re: RustRover – A standalone Rust IDE

#207

Post by slikrick »

0x457 wrote: post #193
reitanuki wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but that one can't be installed to the open source IDEs of course

Honestly, I'm happy about that. I'm already a paying customer, and this hopefully increases how many resources dedicated to rust support.

lol, it literally doesn't change the resource allocation, just makes it a cash grab instead of open

Re: RustRover – A standalone Rust IDE

#208

Post by LelouBil »

wink wrote: post #133
kuhsaft wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all their IDEs. Jetbrains Rider has specific modifications that are integrated into the IDE for .NET software development that aren't available in even in IntelliJ Idea Ultimate. The same goes for CLion, the C/C++ features are not available in any other of their IDEs. Though, I think those are the only two IDEs where the the features provided are not available as plugins.

I wonder when this started, I was under the impression that Ultimate had it all, but maybe that was either never true, or only when I last had to petition for the team to get it (10 years ago). Not even sure either Rider or CLion did exist back then.

For Rider, it's because they built ReSharper (a Visual Studio extension) before Rider, and then built Rider to make it use ReSharper as a back end without Visual Studio, while still using the IntelliJ platform.

Re: RustRover – A standalone Rust IDE

#209

Post by mroche »

notpushkin wrote: post #206
0x457 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's nothing wrong with selling sets of plugins by the way. I don't really get why it must be different IDEs though. Uhm, I've tried using Ultimate for Java and Rust. It wasn't pleasant at all. Different IDEs make total sense to me.

What difficulties did you run into?

In my relatively limited experience with PyCharm and GoLand (with a hint of CLion/IDEA), the individual IDE's make working with a language much simpler and straightforward. Using the language plugins within another IDE adds a few layers of friction with trying to find settings, panels, etc, whereas the IDEs offer workflows OOTB designed for that particular language.

Sorry I can't provide specifics, it's been a hot minute since I've used a JB product but I did enjoy my time with them.

Re: RustRover – A standalone Rust IDE

#210

Post by 0x457 »

slikrick wrote: post #207
0x457 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I'm happy about that. I'm already a paying customer, and this hopefully increases how many resources dedicated to rust support.

lol, it literally doesn't change the resource allocation, just makes it a cash grab instead of open

Agree to disagree. Every language-specific IDE JetBrains released became top tier for that language within an observable period of time.

Resource allocation absolutely changes when you metrics like IDE for language X generates M% more revenue than IDE for language Y.

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