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Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

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Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#111

Post by CharlieDigital »

ubermonkey wrote: post #82
CharlieDigital wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do all of my .NET work on a Mac and deploy to Linux -- both x64 and Arm64 -- on the daily.

Wow, really? That's wild to me.

There are some tradeoffs, but some really key benefits which make it worth it.

Tradeoffs:

    - You'll have to use Rider if you want a full IDE
    - Or get used to VS Code and know its gaps
    - Some workloads aren't as well supported in VSC (e.g. MAUI, desktop apps); as long as you don't need these, VSC is fine
    - I know at least the CosmosDB emulator straight up does not work in ARM, even with the x64 emulation on the Docker image.  Has been that way since M1 released.
    - Occasionally, you'll run into issues where there are dependencies on x64 binaries like with Google OR-Tools which has a .NET wrapper around a C++ library.
    - Have to get used to configuring cross-platform builds for .NET and Docker (not hard) since you'll often still be running in x64 environments in upstream cloud deploy targets.
    - Terrible multi-monitor support; you'll need a $250+ DisplayLink capable dock for more than 2 screens.
    - And the text doesn't render quite as crisp as Windows; might be that it would if I were using Apple monitors, but the same monitors are notably more crisp with Windows 11.
Benefits:

    - PHENOMENAL battery life; for this alone, it was worth the switch.  It's insane how good the battery life is for the performance.  I've previously used top-of-the-line Dell Precision mobile workstations and the performance for the battery life on ARM64 is just unmatched.  I can run Postgres (in Docker), a handful of Docker images, VS Code, and code on a cross-country flight
    - The form factor is phenomenal.  The same size as a Microsoft Surface 13.5" laptop but has 3 USB-C ports and an HDMI port.  Of course, the phenomenal performance and battery life listed above
    - The laptop is absolutely silent; never hear the fan kick on.  I can be compiling away, running a Node-powered front-end dev runtime, a .NET web API, Docker containers -- never hear a damn thing.  Coding in complete silence is kind of crazy.
    - Stays relatively cool and never reaches the same temps as a Windows Intel laptop
Some lessons learned:

    - It takes a while to remap your brain for KB shortcuts; get Karabiner to save your sanity
    - Download iTerm; it's like Windows Terminal
    - If you switch to VSC, you need to commit to it and get used to the CLI

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#112

Post by andomggazzz662 »

marcosdumay wrote: post #72
easton wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TypeScript is also controlled by MS and that has tons of community support. Sure, if things got evil someone would fork/reimplement, but right now Microsoft decides how the language goes for the most part. And for writing C# on the server, the major benefit is that Microsoft has a batteries included web framework that’s very battle tested. There’s at least one good first party answer for every problem (auth, database…

But there is a very compelling reason to use TypeScript. There isn't one for C#. (And, oh man, that batteries included battle tested framework is a stinky pile of trash. The language itself is ok, but the framework uses every misguided trend somebody at MS thought as cool, has no documentation of them, and implements half of them in some way that only that person thought about. There is a passable "web framework" ins…

I find the opposite to be the case in all honesty.

I've never used C# or dotnet core but I know from word of mouth that it is a relatively well put together framework of tools for doing a lot of the things organizations with a lot of backend services to write might need. Many of those orgs are already very locked in with Microsoft, so the greater support by the open source community that comes with typescript is mostly irrelevant. Whatever the officially supported version of something is is what you will be required to use, and the typescript ecosystem provides very little if you want some big company to declare one particular thing to be the blessed solution.

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#113

Post by tester756 »

qingcharles wrote: post #97
tester756 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Every single year I'd speak with a skeptic and they'd have a "reason" not to use .NET that wasn't true. Having to argue with people about how well dotnet runs on Linux after having it deployed on Linux for 6-7 years sucks as hell

What are the issues you have with it? I'm running MS' Kestrel web server executing C# web code and it's been great for me.

I have problems with people who act as if .net wasnt running well on Linux.

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#114

Post by eddythompson80 »

HelloNurse wrote: post #109
eddythompson80 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really true. .NET Framework is still around. Even .NET core 3.x which is EOL a while ago, is still widely used with active stackoverflow and if you're loud enough with the .NET team at Microsoft they will help you there too. The only difference I see between both is that there is an authoritative opinion when it comes to .NET (Microsoft) while there is no authority figure when it comes to node/Javascript.…

The "authoritative opinion" is indecisive. Microsoft frameworks tend to be high quality, but there are too many. ASP? ASP.Net? ASP.Net Core? ASP.Net MVC? Razor? Blazor?

Well, you’re covering about 23 years of development there between ASP and ASP.NET Core.

Don’t get me wrong, the naming sucks. Microsoft is far more likely to recycle names for marketing reasons than just introduce a new name for plethora of stupid reasons.

But Active Server Pages means nothing anymore. It stopped meaning anything since 2003 but they use it as a brand name than anything. It’s no less stupid than gulp, bower, webpack, bun, deno, express, koa, next, vite, etc.

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#115

Post by neonsunset »

thecodrr wrote: post #42

I don't think that's true. We have been using ASP .NET Core + SignalR for everything in Notesnook[0]. It has great performance, libraries for everything out there, very good ergonomics, and a mature ecosystem. I know you can probably get more performance out of Rust or Go but I don't think rq/s benchmarks really hold up in reality. If you are running a startup, you'd probably see 1 to 2 rq/s unless you become viral.…

(you can't get more performance out of Go, it is, in a way, higher level language than C#, in which you can write C-like and C++-like code directly)

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#116

Post by hardware2win »

aragilar wrote: post #107
hardware2win wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this even related to dotnet? All you need to type is some apt get dotn... and you can go

Uh, what, I'm not seeing it? $ apt search dotnet Sorting... Done Full Text Search... Done libgtk-dotnet3.0-cil/testing,unstable 2.99.3-4.1 amd64 GTK.NET library libgtk-dotnet3.0-cil-dev/testing,unstable 2.99.3-4.1 amd64 GTK.NET library - development files libgtk2.0-cil/testing,unstable 2.12.40-3.1 amd64 CLI binding for the GTK+ toolkit 2.12 libgtk2.0-cil-dev/testing,unstable 2.12.40-3.1 amd64 CLI binding for the GTK+…

sudo apt-get update && \ sudo apt-get install -y dotnet-sdk-7.0

Repo

wget https://packages.microsoft.com/config/debian/12/packages-mic... -O packages-microsoft-prod.deb sudo dpkg -i packages-microsoft-prod.deb rm packages-microsoft-prod.deb

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#117

Post by Woshiwuja »

skwirl wrote: post #75
Woshiwuja wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it's a java copy. And java sucks

Have you ever actually written software professionally? I get strong teenage vibes from your comment history.

Yes, was also forced to learn java in uni. Maybe you get teenage vibe cause you are 60?

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#118

Post by Woshiwuja »

nsonha wrote: post #81
skwirl wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever actually written software professionally? I get strong teenage vibes from your comment history.

A big part of why java sucks is that you get failed software engineers to teach them at universities, and teenages took their crappy code and think that's representative of java or programming as a whole even.

I swear i heard the lecture about class at least 10 times. Also most of interaction i had with java was working with legacy software. Not great.

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#119

Post by Woshiwuja »

nsonha wrote: post #81
skwirl wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever actually written software professionally? I get strong teenage vibes from your comment history.

A big part of why java sucks is that you get failed software engineers to teach them at universities, and teenages took their crappy code and think that's representative of java or programming as a whole even.

Java server pages is evil.

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#120

Post by nsonha »

Woshiwuja wrote: post #119
nsonha wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big part of why java sucks is that you get failed software engineers to teach them at universities, and teenages took their crappy code and think that's representative of java or programming as a whole even.

Java server pages is evil.

the evil is trying to do web dev with whatever back-end language that's convenient to you even though javascript might be better. PHP, JSP, ASP they're all the same kind of mess, just some of them are more verbose than the others.
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