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The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

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281–290 of 350 posts

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have swollen nasal polyps (or something) which causes every single cold I get to eventually transform into a 2 week sinus infection + cough ordeal. Netty pot with salty water and a pinch of baking soda, and an even saltier water gargle clears things up nicely. And is very budget friendly.

Ask your ENT to look into adding Budesonide [0] to your saline rinse. It is intended to keep polyps from growing (and has worked wonders for me). [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7374675/

It's been superseded by Mometasone. It's more lipophilic.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#282
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you worried about the government recording your usage of Sudafed? What is anybody going to do with that information? Serious question! I understand the principle involved; I just want to know if there's some practical concern.

For me, it’s a matter of it’s none of their business . No one’s accused me of making meth, but here’s all my PII in a database “just in case”. It’s literally harder for me to buy cold medicine than a gun. I hate everything about that situation.

I don't know where you live but I cannot buy a guy by just showing up. They take ID, they require a license and still run a check. The only exception is when you get your CCW which removes the license per handgun (not long gun/shotgun) but requires a background check.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#283
post #275

Question: why does anyone want to use stimulant decongestants anyway, when corticosteroid nasal sprays (the -metazolines) are equally effective at treating a runny nose, and much more effective at unplugging a stuffy nose?

How long do they last, and how easily is a tolerance developed for steroids? I’m asking this as a chronically congested person who doesn’t like the side effects of extended release pseudoephedrine, but it works.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. But now it's produced in para-industrial labs, mostly in other countries, rather than in apartments and back yards, where those ad hoc labs were actually real public safety problems.

I wonder if the users are sad to miss out on the artisanal small-batch experience.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/03/montana-steve-da...

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And now we've got a fentanyl epidemic filling the void and even more power handed to Mexican cartels since meth got harder to produce domestically. Drugs continue to win the war on drugs.

It's worse than that, because it's not actually a void that's being filled - meth production simply switched to a different pathway that's even more effective and potent. There's actually more meth than there was before the ban. https://dynomight.net/p2p-meth/ "The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it"

Really, I'd read somewhere (might have been browsing the subreddit out of curiosity a while ago) that the meth was much worse now that they had to switch to a process that results in more chiral junk. Interesting.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#286
post #33

I laughed out loud when I read about the lobbyists who are trying to keep phenylephrine from being taken off store shelves. In one article about the FDA panel vote, a lobbyist said that most consumers hate the alternatives -- nasal sprays because of the discomfort and pseudoephedrine because it's stored behind the pharmacy counter -- and so depriving them of a hassle-free option is anti-consumer. The fact that the ha…

Mah liberties!

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#287
post #224
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dextromethorphan is one of the other “scientifically proven ineffective” OTC products mentioned by the authors. Once when I had a quite severe cough I did some (highly motivated) research and my conclusion was that there is no such thing as an effective cough suppressant. At least, none that isn’t also a consciousness suppressant.

Low dose codeine is notoriously efficient.

Indeed. Codeine was even available over the counter in the US until the mid 1960s. But of course it was also addictive, so now it's prescription-only.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worse than that, because it's not actually a void that's being filled - meth production simply switched to a different pathway that's even more effective and potent. There's actually more meth than there was before the ban. https://dynomight.net/p2p-meth/ "The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it"

Really, I'd read somewhere (might have been browsing the subreddit out of curiosity a while ago) that the meth was much worse now that they had to switch to a process that results in more chiral junk. Interesting.

It was, briefly, and then they figured out how to purify it I guess?

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, if the concern isn't that I'm trafficking, then why am I being told no? Isn't this the logic the government used to assert this right for itself in the first place? Otherwise, what right is it of the government to enact this rate limit? What interest are they protecting? How is the rate limit decided? What can I do if I disagree with the rate limit? Why is a private business being burdened with the governments ag…

You're not being told "no". You can just go buy some Sudafed right now if you want to. It's not like there's an application process. There is a rate limit; that's it.

> You're not being told "no". You can just go buy some Sudafed right now if you want to.

You effectively are in many cases, just as predicted by most when these laws were put into place.

First, it became far less of a relatively benign "after the fact" logbook as it was when first implemented. It is now networked and real-time. Many chain stores implement their own interpretation of what they feel a rate limit should be. This tends to err drastically on the side of conservative, and might look back much further than you assume.

Second, it's added risk - many independents simply don't want to bother with such a risk, and thus don't bother stocking it. It also adds handling costs.

And third and most importantly - it completely and irrevocably ruined the supply chain. It is now legitimately difficult to find it in stock reliably - and if you run out of it at 2am, it's no longer just a minor inconvenience to run to literally any convenience store.

Most stores simply no longer carry it, and only a handful of 24 hour pharmacy options exist compared to 20 years ago. Those pharmacies also have consistent supply issues, so you better not have strong brand or dosing preference.

Prices went up, and availability plummeted. It's out of stock roughly a third of the time I've needed to go run out to get some, and is no longer just an afterthought item to stock up on at Costco. Typically you're settling on buying the smallest boxes they make since all other sizes are out of stock, and paying even more per dose.

And it absolutely is a slippery slope. Loperamide has now met the same fate in many states, and has become multiples of the expense it used to be and a very much pain in the butt to get. No more qty 120 bottles from Costco at 2 cents a pill - entire market killed because people got used to this new norm.

It's just one more chip away at the American quality of life. Not a huge one, but one that adds expense and friction for what amounts to a questionable amount of gain.

Edit: That is all to say - it's far more than "just a rate limit". Ruining the OTC market for cold medication might be worth it, but that's more or less what happened here. It wasn't like the top 5% of buyers got scraped off the top and sent to jail and everyone else carried on per usual. The cold aisle of your local supermarket took a giant step backwards from 20 years ago in price, availability, convenience, and effectiveness. That was the cost of these creeping regulations. Some may even say the chilling effect was the entire point.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#290
post #275

Question: why does anyone want to use stimulant decongestants anyway, when corticosteroid nasal sprays (the -metazolines) are equally effective at treating a runny nose, and much more effective at unplugging a stuffy nose?

Metazolines are not steroids. They are vasoconstrictors and immediate decongestants. You may be thinking of fluticasone, which is used to desensitize the nose to allergens over time but which has very little immediate decongestant effect.
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