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The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

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Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#131

Post by tptacek »

akira2501 wrote: post #114
tptacek wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're just going to say "no", right? They're not going to "automatically make you a drug trafficker". They're just trying to enforce a rate limit.

So, if the concern isn't that I'm trafficking, then why am I being told no? Isn't this the logic the government used to assert this right for itself in the first place? Otherwise, what right is it of the government to enact this rate limit? What interest are they protecting? How is the rate limit decided? What can I do if I disagree with the rate limit? Why is a private business being burdened with the governments ag…

You're not being told "no". You can just go buy some Sudafed right now if you want to. It's not like there's an application process. There is a rate limit; that's it.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#132

Post by jkingsman »

tech_ken wrote: post #41

"Phenethylamines I Have Known and Felt Kind of Meh About"

I laughed out loud.

For those unaware, "Phenethylamines I Have Known and Loved" (aka PiHKAL) is Sasha and Ann Shulgin's book that is half semi-fictional autobiography and half detailed synthesis and in-vivo effects observed in the enormous family of psychoactive phenethylamines. The autobiography part is only available in print, but the chemistry section is freely available[0].

There is a sequel, a similar book for tryptamines called TiHKAL[1].

They are stunningly bold in their chemistry, administration and discovery of novel drugs, and in making good science available under dubiously legal circumstances.

[0] https://erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal.shtml [1] https://erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal.shtml

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#133

Post by purpleblue »

buildsjets wrote: post #9

The fact that phenylepherine is ineffective is quite old and has been common knowledge for many years. What is news is that the FDA is finally acknowledging it. I've maintained my own reserve of pseudoephedrine for years. https://gizmodo.com/report-many-over-the-counter-decongestan... https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2015/10/26/the-pop... https://www.newscientist.com/article/2089555-breaking-bad-sn...

The fact that drug companies' "tests" indicated that it worked shows how corrupt the system is. There is in fact no way it could have worked, yet the data they provided decades ago showed that it did. This is why we should never, ever trust drug companies, it's just kind of funny that somehow in the last few years some people decided that Pfizer was a hero instead of a psychopathic (in the purest clinical definition) money machine.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#134

Post by akerl_ »

phone8675309 wrote: post #121
tptacek wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the reason they keep the database is especially clear here, right? They're just trying to enforce a rate limit. It's the most obvious public policy response you can have to "a drug that in small quantities is a useful decongestant, but in moderate quantities or above is an ultra powerful stimulant whose abuse is ravaging parts of the country".

The primary question to me is whether the risk of data breech outweighs the harm from not keeping the data, and while 20 years ago this tradeoff may have made sense, I'm not so sure it makes sense now.

If the data is breached, an attacker learns... that sometimes you have a cough?

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#135

Post by quercusa »

the_sleaze9 wrote: post #115
AlbertCory wrote: post #92

Public service announcement: sinus rinse (e.g. NeilMed) works. Available in every drug store with no prescription or pharmacist involvement necessary. It's gross, though. Do it in private.

I have swollen nasal polyps (or something) which causes every single cold I get to eventually transform into a 2 week sinus infection + cough ordeal. Netty pot with salty water and a pinch of baking soda, and an even saltier water gargle clears things up nicely. And is very budget friendly.

Ask your ENT to look into adding Budesonide [0] to your saline rinse. It is intended to keep polyps from growing (and has worked wonders for me).

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7374675/

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#136

Post by JJMcJ »

buildsjets wrote: post #9

The fact that phenylepherine is ineffective is quite old and has been common knowledge for many years. What is news is that the FDA is finally acknowledging it. I've maintained my own reserve of pseudoephedrine for years. https://gizmodo.com/report-many-over-the-counter-decongestan... https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2015/10/26/the-pop... https://www.newscientist.com/article/2089555-breaking-bad-sn...

You can still get pseudoephedrine, for example Claritin D, the D for decongestant. It's not by prescription but you have to sign for it at the pharmacy desk, present ID, and I believe it's reported to FDA/DEA and there are limits to how much you can buy per month.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#137

Post by dzdt »

pixl97 wrote: post #70
ctoth wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, this is the actual logic which will be used to justify it staying on shelves. > The decongestant is in at least 250 products that were worth nearly $1.8 billion in sales last year, according to an agency presentation. Look those yachts aren't gonna buy themselves.

"Ok fine, you can still sell it over the counter... except a X by Y sign stating 'This product is completely ineffective if taken in pill form' needs displayed on the shelf where the product is sold"

The same stores sell completely ineffective homeopathic "medicines" alongside real medicines already. There are no signs. Its already up to the consumer to determine what may or may not actually work at the pharmacy.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#138

Post by quercusa »

doug_durham wrote: post #94
AlbertCory wrote: post #92

Public service announcement: sinus rinse (e.g. NeilMed) works. Available in every drug store with no prescription or pharmacist involvement necessary. It's gross, though. Do it in private.

It doesn't reduce the sinus inflammation. At least for me all I end up with is a still congested, but now watery nose.

It's useful to rinse out the sinuses so that nasties don't grow there.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#139

Post by scarface_74 »

MockObject wrote: post #128
scarface_74 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s “anecdotal” that I can measure with a machine that gives a number and that I track over a period time? It’s not like I said “I feel better” when taking it. So my blood pressure just magically comes down after I’m taking it?

What did you think "anecdote" means? Why wouldn't your individual report of your meter measurements count? You haven't shown us the data, shown that you've controlled for confounding factors, or anything. You posted an anecdote.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.HYP.00001036...

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#140

Post by lazide »

01100011 wrote: post #90
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of us cannot make these drugs ourselves. To restrict them effectively would certainly curtail their abuse?

Shake-n-bake meth was relatively easy to do for the average methhead. Also, do not underestimate the capabilities of a meth user when they get fixated on something.

Bonus - meth causes among other things incredible focus.
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