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The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

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Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#211

Post by tptacek »

lazide wrote: post #207
tptacek wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of this supports the argument you made? It's just a DOJ report talking about the smurfing-to-lab pipeline, which was obviously very real, until we made it annoying enough to get Sudafed that smurfing became irrelevant and production shifted offshore. No, this is an instance where I won't hedge, because I think my cards in this hand are strong enough: the risk of what you said earlier, of DEA getting bored and lo…

Dude, that report was written AFTER the laws which required it to be moved behind the counter, people to take IDs, etc. 2 years after. Smurfing was the response to that. They used those databases to identify it and target folks. That's the whole point.

I re-read it again. It says that exactly nowhere. In fact, the one specific case it did talk about, the causality was reversed: the investigation started with a couple that was recruiting other people to buy.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#212

Post by lazide »

tptacek wrote: post #208
lazide wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how we're still stuck not being able to buy Sudafed normally though. :(

You mean, by walking into the drug store and asking for it?

By literally going to the aisle with the decongestants, taking a pack, and paying for it like every other thing I would be buying. Like every other OTC drug.

Without having to give ID, find a pharmacist, etc. I remember those days. They're long gone, obviously.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#213

Post by wrs »

tech_ken wrote: post #127
rscho wrote: post #116

Phenylephrine is ineffective when taken orally. It is super effective topically or iv. I can definitely tell, because it's the most commonly used vasopressor used under anaesthesia (iv). Also used topically to avoid nosebleeds during nasal intubation.

Curious about how this aligns with the bioavailability point discussed in the article. Presumably if the gut lining is where the bulk of metabolism occurs then IV sidesteps this and increase the bioavail drug, leading to improved efficacy.

The gut metabolism makes it less available, which is why if you put it in your stomach not much shows up in your nasal lining. If you spray it or inject it directly where it needs to go, no problem.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#214

Post by 13of40 »

PixyMisa wrote: post #113
nonethewiser wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can buy 6 boxes of sudafed per month (24 doses each). Isn’t that more than the recommended (and probably safe) daily limit? I dont doubt your intentions but I don’t think you actually need 6 boxes per month + a stash.

They mention one box every six months, which is entirely reasonable.

Not sure how widespread it is or if there's a federal limit, but my state (Washington) even makes it illegal to possess more than 15 grams of it.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#215

Post by paiute »

lazide wrote: post #140
01100011 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shake-n-bake meth was relatively easy to do for the average methhead. Also, do not underestimate the capabilities of a meth user when they get fixated on something.

Bonus - meth causes among other things incredible focus.

I’ve noticed the comments on hn become more meth curious over the last couple of years… I know the state of CO has been pressuring doctors not to prescribe aderall. Mine got taken away because i only took it when i needed to force myself to really work (a few times a month). Now i use pseudoephedrine.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#216

Post by _a_a_a_ »

cyberax wrote: post #75
jimmaswell wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And now we've got a fentanyl epidemic filling the void and even more power handed to Mexican cartels since meth got harder to produce domestically. Drugs continue to win the war on drugs.

Meth is not harder to produce. It's now mass-produced from P2P, with chiral purification using various methods (like pulling one enantiomer with tartaric acid).

I'm curious about the chemistry here (though I have very little chemistry background), so, bearing in mind that I have zero interest in producing methamphetamine, perhaps you can elaborate a little:

– I can't see how Phenylacetone can have chirality

– I don't understand how any enantiomer of P2P (if one exists, see above) can be selected for specifically via a chemical reaction, especially here with tartaric acid, which is a chiral molecule itself, so surely you would need a specific enantiomer of tartaric acid to start with?

I'm sure these are basic questions, I'm just a dabbler. Any links welcome, no problem if this is out of place for HN.TIA

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#217

Post by AnthonyMouse »

tptacek wrote: post #201
cyberax wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meth is not harder to produce. It's now mass-produced from P2P, with chiral purification using various methods (like pulling one enantiomer with tartaric acid).

Yes. But now it's produced in para-industrial labs, mostly in other countries, rather than in apartments and back yards, where those ad hoc labs were actually real public safety problems.

Isn't increased financing of major drug cartels a serious public safety problem?

Weren't most pseudoephedrine-to-meth operations in rural areas or otherwise situated away from the general public to avoid detection?

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#218

Post by tptacek »

lazide wrote: post #212
tptacek wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean, by walking into the drug store and asking for it?

By literally going to the aisle with the decongestants, taking a pack, and paying for it like every other thing I would be buying. Like every other OTC drug. Without having to give ID, find a pharmacist, etc. I remember those days. They're long gone, obviously.

"Find a pharmacist"? I can tell you where the pharmacist is! They have their own checkout aisle!

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#219

Post by robocat »

underlipton wrote: post #122
akira2501 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't fight a war against inanimate objects. You can fight a war against drug addicts. You cannot possibly win a war against drug addicts without addressing the fundamental problem.

The "fundamental problem" is the breakdown of community (drug abuse being primarily being a function of the existence or lack of interpersonal involvement and responsibilities that would preclude spending time and money on them). People who are comfortable huddling in their cars, homes, and exclusive social clubs, and who would rather spend money on cops rather than social programs, aren't going to like the fix for t…

> social programs

Do you have any links to social programs that have successfully dealt with meth addiction?

Can't say I have seen any locally (New Zealand) and we are a country more likely to see such programs?

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#220

Post by bee_rider »

tptacek wrote: post #201
cyberax wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meth is not harder to produce. It's now mass-produced from P2P, with chiral purification using various methods (like pulling one enantiomer with tartaric acid).

Yes. But now it's produced in para-industrial labs, mostly in other countries, rather than in apartments and back yards, where those ad hoc labs were actually real public safety problems.

I wonder if the users are sad to miss out on the artisanal small-batch experience.
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