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Credit card debt collection

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Re: Credit card debt collection

#421

Post by sudosysgen »

Tarq0n wrote: post #343
specialist wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debt: The First 5000 Years rewired my brain. Debt crisis followed by debt relief is historically normal. Prompting Graeber to wonder if capitalism is inherently unstable. Maybe capitalism somehow requires debt relief (eg jubilees, bankruptcy). Then we should codify it. Instead of continuing to treat them as unanticipated, unfortunate one-offs. Our recurring bubbles and bailouts seem to be keeping with Graeber's thesi…

Inflation is a kind of slow debt relief that may have largely replaced the need for jubilees.

No? Interest rates can simply exceed inflation.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#422

Post by goodbyesf »

lodovic wrote: post #413
beaviskhan wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is zero chance that I, a US resident, will ever use debit cards for anything. The reason is that in the event of a fraudulent charge (which still happens surprisingly often, given that chips were supposed to put an end to that): - With a debit card, I am out $X of my own money, until the bank can be bothered to agree that the charge is fraudulent and refund my money, which can take weeks or months, if at all. G…

If I use a credit card, I pay up to 20% on the outstanding amount. If I use my debit card, I get interest on the money that I don't spend. I also cannot spend more than what is in my account. If there is a charge I disagree with, I can easily reverse it without any cost. And I have never met anyone who had a fraudulent charge (without being dumb). To me, I cannot understand why anyone would use a credit card unless d…

> If I use a credit card, I pay up to 20% on the outstanding amount.

Key is never having outstanding debt. Pay your credit card balance in full. Most people with credit cards do this. I have never met anyone who paid any interest on their credit card because everyone I know pays it in full each month.

> And I have never met anyone who had a fraudulent charge (without being dumb).

And? The point is if it happens, you are far safer with a credit card than a debit card. Once the money is gone from the credit card, it's the credit card companies problem. Once the money is gone from your debit, it's your problem.

> To me, I cannot understand why anyone would use a credit card unless debit isn't accepted.

Because credit card is more secure. As the OP already told you.

As long as you have financial discipline, using a credit card is smarter than using a debit. It's a simple concept.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#423

Post by Broken_Hippo »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #406
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you? Its been some years since I saw any reporting on it, and I'm honestly not going to spend the time to dig it up for a comment.

I have no evidence either way, but it is not absurd in my opinion to suggest that people who make poor life decisions in one area of their lives might also make poor life decisions elsewhere.

A bad credit score doesn't really mean you've made bad choices. It just means you had some bad luck.

The reasons for your bad luck can range from medical bills, job loss, missing work when poor (it snowballs) and other such things. It might mean you made a bad decision when you were 18, but it is still hanging around on your credit. You might have been in a financially abusive relationship.

Shit happens, and it is naive to think that you have absolute control over all of it. A few folks simply don't pay, sure, but you can't tell this from a credit report.

And it isn't like you are going to get credit for paying most normal bills on time. Landlords and utilities rarely report positives to the agencies.

And even with all this, it shouldn't realistically mean that folks can't get back up. Most jobs don't need credit checks, nor do most apartments (or at least, limited checks).

Re: Credit card debt collection

#424

Post by chmod600 »

Counterfactual:

What if debts were all perfectly organized? If you miss a payment, the collector would email you an electronic copy of the contract, and the parts in breach would be highlighted. Further assume that the contract itself is simple and understandable, and the debtors knew they were in breach of fairly obvious clauses (e.g. send this payment by this date). And let's also assume all collectors act in good faith and warn you of upcoming obligations.

And then let's say there was an efficient and fair legal process, and if the debtor still doesn't pay for an extended time, it would be economical to sue individual debtors, and get judgements, and enforce them as prescribed by law.

Is that better?

My guess is probably not. Small debts are in a weird optional world and if you don't pay the main problem is that you have trouble borrowing more, or need to borrow at bad rates (maybe check cashing instead of formal credit). The collectors are some weird outgrowth of this model, and they don't really serve any useful purpose. But it might be better than actually enforcing small debts against people as the current laws allow.

Of course, ideally, we'd just be honest and call it an optional system. To be in good standing with lenders, pay your debts. If you don't care, then don't, and maybe be locked out of borrowing in the future. And larger debts would be handled separately, with collateral, etc.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#425

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

eru wrote: post #190
Reason077 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Singapore may be many of those things but it's not "monocultural". Besides the fact that it has 4 official languages, foreigners make up about 30% of the resident population - a much higher portion than the USA, for example!

> [...] foreigners make up about 30% of the resident population - a much higher portion than the USA, for example! I mostly disagree with acyou's comment, but since Singapore is a city as much as a state, the more enlightening comparison might be with how many of eg New York City's residents were born out of town? (Or perhaps how many of NYC's residents were born out of the country? It's murky, and there might not be…

To push your point a bit further, my high school History teacher (I went to HS in NYC), would constantly remind us that New York was nothing like the rest of America.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#426

Post by ATMLOTTOBEER »

lodovic wrote: post #413
beaviskhan wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is zero chance that I, a US resident, will ever use debit cards for anything. The reason is that in the event of a fraudulent charge (which still happens surprisingly often, given that chips were supposed to put an end to that): - With a debit card, I am out $X of my own money, until the bank can be bothered to agree that the charge is fraudulent and refund my money, which can take weeks or months, if at all. G…

If I use a credit card, I pay up to 20% on the outstanding amount. If I use my debit card, I get interest on the money that I don't spend. I also cannot spend more than what is in my account. If there is a charge I disagree with, I can easily reverse it without any cost. And I have never met anyone who had a fraudulent charge (without being dumb). To me, I cannot understand why anyone would use a credit card unless d…

Paying your credit card off fully every month ensures you don’t pay any interest (use it like a debit card). Wrt the earning interest point, consider that with a credit card you still get interest on the money you don’t spend, and you can also collect interest on the money you do spend (eg I buy something for $100 on the 15th, I can collect interest on the $100 until I have to actually pay the bill on the 1st of next month). Not to mention that you also pay 1-1.5% less for everything you use a card for due to cashback schemes. I definitely see why it might seem weird the way Americans use credit cards but it is mostly rational.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#427

Post by ATMLOTTOBEER »

wpietri wrote: post #310
beaviskhan wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is zero chance that I, a US resident, will ever use debit cards for anything. The reason is that in the event of a fraudulent charge (which still happens surprisingly often, given that chips were supposed to put an end to that): - With a debit card, I am out $X of my own money, until the bank can be bothered to agree that the charge is fraudulent and refund my money, which can take weeks or months, if at all. G…

Yeah, I don't use rewards or loyalty programs at all; I don't like giving over the headspace to corporate manipulators. But I still use debit cards very carefully because of the better protections from fraud for credit transactions. The rise of the chip card may have fixed that; it's been a long time since I've had a problem. But I'm reluctant to find out.

Agreed. Using flat 1.5% cashback cards with autopay + setting the cashback balance to auto apply to each statement is the convenience compromise I have found

Re: Credit card debt collection

#428

Post by greenshackle2 »

Terr_ wrote: post #229

Recycling my post from when this link was submitted 32 days ago. _____ While I highly encourage everyone to read this in its entirely, I think it's worth a quick summary of the bits that may be personally-useful to those who don't: * If it comes to a lawsuit in a court case, DO NOT IGNORE IT. If you don't show up, collector gets a kind of automatic win called a default judgement, and that's how you end up losing your…

I'm in Canada so laws are different but what I found here is when I ask for proof they don't send it, they just sell the "debt" to a different agency and then I start getting harassed again 2 months later, rinse and repeat.

(I put debt in quotes because the alleged debt is with a company I've never done business with, so I assume it's completely fake, mistaken identity, or identity theft.)

Re: Credit card debt collection

#429

Post by LorenPechtel »

DoubleGlazing wrote: post #315

There was a case a few year back around the time of the 2008 recession where a man in debt used the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act to earn a decent living from their aggressive/dishonest practices. I did try Googling for the story, but I could find it. His process was to let them lie to him - he even encouraged it, all while he was recording the call. After the call ended he'd launch a legal claim for compensatio…

Yeah, I wish we had one-party recording rules.

I had a bunch of idiotic debt collectors after me in dealing with my mother's estate. (*None* of them listened to the simple instruction that it's an estate issue, file with such-and-such court. The clock ran out, they all ended up with $0.) Rare was it a call that didn't violate the FDCPA. Unfortunately, I live in a state that's all-party with regards to phone calls even though we're one-party in person.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#430

Post by LorenPechtel »

vikingerik wrote: post #365
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in the early '10s I was reading a report from a guy who had stellar credit and the card limits to go with them. He ran up about $100,000 of debt on his cards on purpose and stopped making payments. He then approached his bank to settle the debt and negotiated a 60% discount. The account was marked "paid by customer" so it never appeared on his on his credit report as a default. He did get dinged for missing paym…

I have a family member who did something similar - perfect credit and defaulted on purpose. On a rental property, he was underwater on the mortgage at the time of the 2008 crash, so he simply stopped paying and let the bank foreclose and came out ahead that way. Trashed his credit rating but he never had any need for it, he had enough to buy his own house and car outright.

aka Strategic default. There was a lot of that in states where the lender doesn't have recourse beyond reclaiming the house.
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