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Credit card debt collection

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Re: Credit card debt collection

#341

Post by no_wizard »

krapp wrote: post #221
pjc50 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How on earth can people be denied jobs for poor credit? You're not a creditor to your employer! Isn't this just the "social credit" system that people worry about in China, except privatised?

Someone with poor credit may be assumed more likely to commit fraud or steal from the company. Someone with poor credit might also be assumed to be personally irresponsible and lazy, and more likely to slack off, ignore necessary details or cut corners. It isn't fair but in the US money carries moral weight, and many people assume the less of it you have, the worse of a person you are.

If you live in California your credit score can’t be factored into hiring unless you directly deal with company finances in a specific way, namely in the roles of accounting or finance.

Even if you’re a software engineer working on financial software you’re exempt because you have no direct and common access to the company purse.

There’s a few other states that have laws like this I can’t recall them though l

Re: Credit card debt collection

#342

Post by ToucanLoucan »

elteto wrote: post #330
specialist wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debt: The First 5000 Years rewired my brain. Debt crisis followed by debt relief is historically normal. Prompting Graeber to wonder if capitalism is inherently unstable. Maybe capitalism somehow requires debt relief (eg jubilees, bankruptcy). Then we should codify it. Instead of continuing to treat them as unanticipated, unfortunate one-offs. Our recurring bubbles and bailouts seem to be keeping with Graeber's thesi…

Of course it requires debt relief, things go _wrong_ all the time, that’s just life and how the world works. Debt relief is also necessary for a peaceful society. If you can’t legally discharge debt in some manner we’d have companies hiring enforcers like a shark loan would. It’s not a problem of capitalism, it’s a problem of reality.

> It’s not a problem of capitalism, it’s a problem of reality.

I'm really not sure about that.

> Of course it requires debt relief, things go _wrong_ all the time, that’s just life and how the world works.

Yet funnily enough the people on top of all these vast structures sail away from their sinking ships on parachutes of gold (if they're even sinking: a lot of times they just sit and collect vast sums of unearned wealth because they had a lot of wealth already).

If debt is such a bad business why are so many massive institutions in it, not discharging debt, and raking in the profits by the shovelful?

> Debt relief is also necessary for a peaceful society. If you can’t legally discharge debt in some manner we’d have companies hiring enforcers like a shark loan would.

This however we can agree on. As the amount of debts that can be accrued and not discharged (student loans being the biggest) goes up, the economy seems ever more unstable and unsustainable. As it turns out when you strip mine your consumers wallets from every angle, eventually they seem to be unable to buy things for some reason. Then demand craters and your economy stalls.

And just to head off this reply I always get in these discussions about useless degrees and STEM and etc. etc., I think to be frank, if indeed we're only interested in financing "worthwhile" educations, then that should be enforced by the financier, no? A bank wouldn't loan you $200,000 to buy a single-wide trailer on rented land, the asset is not now nor would it ever be worth that, so why is a student able to borrow six figures for a again in quotes, "worthless" literature degree, and be strapped to that one decision they made for life?

Re: Credit card debt collection

#343

Post by Tarq0n »

specialist wrote: post #252
nologic01 wrote: post #159

It is in this domain, of broken promises and broken people that you can establish what a society is really made of. Graeber's Debt is obligatory reading (alas not easy to read) if you want to dig into the painful history of debt relations between humans. The post provides excellent insights into the odious side of consumer finance. It feels like a follow up with ideas about reform would not be wasted effort: Once thi…

Debt: The First 5000 Years rewired my brain. Debt crisis followed by debt relief is historically normal. Prompting Graeber to wonder if capitalism is inherently unstable. Maybe capitalism somehow requires debt relief (eg jubilees, bankruptcy). Then we should codify it. Instead of continuing to treat them as unanticipated, unfortunate one-offs. Our recurring bubbles and bailouts seem to be keeping with Graeber's thesi…

Inflation is a kind of slow debt relief that may have largely replaced the need for jubilees.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#344

Post by [deleted] »

vuln wrote: post #291
Reason077 wrote: post #177

One thing that's not mentioned in this article is that credit card companies will sometimes make last-ditch "clear your debt at a discount" offers before passing your debt on to a collection agency. This happened to me many years ago. In the wake of the '08 financial crisis, I'd lost my job abruptly and decided to go travelling. I'd accumulated a balance that was fairly substantial for me at the time (on the order of…

In this case the difference between what you owe and what you settled at will have to be claimed as income on your taxes.

[deleted]

Re: Credit card debt collection

#345

Post by bluGill »

dfxm12 wrote: post #314
beaviskhan wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is zero chance that I, a US resident, will ever use debit cards for anything. The reason is that in the event of a fraudulent charge (which still happens surprisingly often, given that chips were supposed to put an end to that): - With a debit card, I am out $X of my own money, until the bank can be bothered to agree that the charge is fraudulent and refund my money, which can take weeks or months, if at all. G…

There is zero chance that I, a US resident, will ever use debit cards for anything. Does being a US resident have any meaning here? I mean, does the rest of the world not secure credit card payments, or does the rest of the world secure debit card payments like the US secures credit card payment?

In the US if your credit card number is compromised you are legally out at most $50 (I haven't checked in 20 years so this may have changed, my comment is at least partially historical). In almost all cases the bank will just wave that $50 as they are already paying the rest. If your debit card is compromised the money comes from your account and legally they don't have to return it to you, instead you need to figure out who defrauded you and collect (my info is 20 years out of date so this is almost certainly wrong), though in practice the banks will probably return your money and collect on your behalf but this takes a month.

Note that the above is about the number, which is not secure in any situation. You don't need to have someones credit card, you just need to know the numbers. If you compromise an insecure website and get these details (bank rules don't allow storing the numbers, but if the website doesn't follow the rules). You can also take a picture of a card as someone is scanning it.

Europe went to the chip and pin system, plus a system where they bring cards readers to each table because they did not have the above protection for credit cards. Thus in Europe you would be a fool to let your waiter take your credit card to a backroom to pay for a meal because the waiter can then copy the numbers and/or the magstripe, and then use your credit card after returning the physical one to you (again, this is 20 years out of date, laws have changed but I don't know how!). Since the US has (20 years ago) better consumer protection laws around credit cards, people didn't care that chip+pin was more secure as practically it didn't make any difference, and for a while banks figured it wasn't worth caring. Once banks started caring everyone switched to the chip in the US - but we mostly don't use a PIN as the annoyance of needing to remember a PIN isn't worth putting on consumers here. (also Europe has made the portable terminals cheap so you find a lot of portable terminals here as well so cards are less likely to leave the owners hands thus making the PIN less important)

Re: Credit card debt collection

#346

Post by Workaccount2 »

bettercallsalad wrote: post #186
nologic01 wrote: post #159

It is in this domain, of broken promises and broken people that you can establish what a society is really made of. Graeber's Debt is obligatory reading (alas not easy to read) if you want to dig into the painful history of debt relations between humans. The post provides excellent insights into the odious side of consumer finance. It feels like a follow up with ideas about reform would not be wasted effort: Once thi…

I am far from religious, but one thing most religious traditions have common is how they ban usury/interest which would make much of global finance we have today “haram”. You can see the reverse effect too not only at an individual but collective level. Once the religious ethos disappears from a sect, widespread adoption of debt becomes the norm.

But debt and interest are both sound concepts, and both are critical towards building an advanced society. Being able to borrow money from the future is enormously powerful.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#347

Post by pjmlp »

nbadg wrote: post #329
pjmlp wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living since 2004 in Germany, Kreditkarte is definitly a known term and people known the difference. I guess the biggest difference from US is that you need to earn the Kreditkarte, not everyone gets to own one if the bank account isn't that inspiring, and even after getting one, the limits depend on how healthy the bank account tends to be on average.

To be clear, people know the difference between Kreditkarte and Girokarte. Also, some nuance here: using the terms "Karte" and "Kreditkarte" interchangeably isn't the same thing as "people don't know the difference". I'm not making a statement about whether or not people understand the difference between direct debit and revolving credit as concepts. I'm making a statement on the language that is used to describe the…

I can only reply that west of Hamburg, Karte means any kind of card.

Credit card is explicitly Kreditkarte.

I also speak German fluenty, including partial knowledge of some dialects, and Swiss German.

Since my last time in Berlin was 10 years ago, I'll have to take it.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#348

Post by bluGill »

beaviskhan wrote: post #317
dfxm12 wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is zero chance that I, a US resident, will ever use debit cards for anything. Does being a US resident have any meaning here? I mean, does the rest of the world not secure credit card payments, or does the rest of the world secure debit card payments like the US secures credit card payment?

I assume the rest of the world is less stupid/greedy than the US here, but honestly I have no idea how this works elsewhere - that's the reason for the "US resident" clarification.

People are equally stupid/greedy around the world. Different countries have different laws though, and that makes a major difference.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#349

Post by elteto »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #342
elteto wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it requires debt relief, things go _wrong_ all the time, that’s just life and how the world works. Debt relief is also necessary for a peaceful society. If you can’t legally discharge debt in some manner we’d have companies hiring enforcers like a shark loan would. It’s not a problem of capitalism, it’s a problem of reality.

> It’s not a problem of capitalism, it’s a problem of reality. I'm really not sure about that. > Of course it requires debt relief, things go _wrong_ all the time, that’s just life and how the world works. Yet funnily enough the people on top of all these vast structures sail away from their sinking ships on parachutes of gold (if they're even sinking: a lot of times they just sit and collect vast sums of unearned we…

I think you mistook my comment as a defense of capitalism. Although I do believe a system based on private property and individual freedom is superior to the alternative, I wasn’t making that statement. I was just pointing out something at a much lower level: we need debt relief because we don’t live in a perfect world, things go south and we need for people to be able to move on. That’s it.

We could talk about the inequalities built into the system, but that would be a different conversation.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#350

Post by elteto »

wizerdrobe wrote: post #336
elteto wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like pedantry on the USAA part. They should add some small fraction of a point to your rate and move on. I understand you probably get extra benefits with USAA but this would be an automatic disqualification for me and I’d move kn to a different servicer. However, that is _painful_ in the middle of a closing.

Truth be told - we’re looking at ditching them but with banking, home, and auto we are likely stuck with them for the fact of inertia. Our mortgage was immediately sold to another firm, so there’s no nicety on the part of having a consistent firm there. The process was painful, our processor was impossible to get in touch with, often a 48 hour lag for a reply. Shortly before moving I was side-swiped by a man sufferin…

> Sweet, sweet inertia…

It’s almost as if it was a natural law or something…

Look into Ally Loans. Same deal, you’ll be packaged and sold out within the week, but they have a very, very nice online system for the loan process.

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