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iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

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Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#111

Post by boxed »

flagrant_taco wrote: post #81
JacobSeated wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is far more likely that it is due to numerous other causes, some even with proven links – there is, however, still no links to mobile phone use, and no known mechanism by which it could even happen. Non-Ionizing Radiation causing cancer is probably as close to a physical impossibility as you get. Besides, there are numerous of other sources of radiation that is much stronger, including visible lights. You should b…

Proving a link between cancer and one specific environmental factor is the physical impossibility you're looking for. Epidemiological studies tracking humans over time aren't controlled and will at best show a correlation worth studying, lab animal studies aren't great analogs given all the confounding factors and environmental differences with humans in real life, and unless the cancer causing agent acts quickly a c…

> Proving a link between cancer and one specific environmental factor is the physical impossibility you're looking for.

But.. that happens all the time? The link between excessive solar exposure ("tanning") and cancer is extremely well documented.

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#112

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

seszett wrote: post #98
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT: I'll admit I overlooked the US system's origins origins and concepts in France - but even though these concepts are not American in origin, the US is where all the mentions lead-to today. --- It is an Americanism because the term implicitly assumes two things: 1. That the government is split into branches, following how the US system evolved. 2. That executive power must be confined to a single branch, also how…

> It is an Americanism because the term implicitly assumes two things: > 1. That the government is split into branches, following how the US system evolved. > 2. That executive power must be confined to a single branch, also how the US is organized. I'm pretty sure these principles are originally French. The American system was built around these principles as well, but calling them American is a whole new level of A…

> I'm pretty sure these principles are originally French. The American system was built around these principles as well, but calling them American is a whole new level of Americentrism

I'll concede that - certainly.

> Separation of powers into three branches is basically a prerequisite for belonging to the EU, as it is considered a basic requirement for a democracy

The EU is concerned more with judicial independence, not constitutional separation-of-powers: most EU countries (and especially its founding and early members) do not have separation strictly along judicial/legislative/executive boundary lines: The UK, Germany, Spain, and others all have an executive parliament; France and the US are in the minority here.

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#113

Post by cmsj »

mwidell wrote: post #87

I love my Apple Watch ultra, because with cellular I can use it as a phone – a very lightweight phone without social media distractions. But I have to say I am a little bit uneasy about having a cellphone strapped to my arm. Someone with physics knowledge please calm me down?

EM radiation striking your body is essentially just going to impart energy into your atoms/molecules.

All of the EM radiation emitted by a phone is very very far down in the non-ionising range. That means it can't directly damage the atoms/molecules in your body, it will just be heating those atoms/molecules a bit.

Wifi is 2.4GHz, 5GHz or 6GHz

Bluetooth is 2.4GHz

3G/4G/5G are in the same kinda range, with the exception of mmWave 5G which is up around 30GHz.

Infrared starts around 300GHz, then there's the whole visible light spectrum, and it's only once you get into ultra-violet around 3PHz (yes, Petahertz) that you reach the ionising band, where the radiation imparts enough energy into your constituent atoms/molecules that electrons are broken free. These free electrons will then damage your cells/DNA.

So far, there is no evidence that anything in the parts of the spectrum that are licensed for phones/wifi/bluetooth/etc are at all dangerous to humans.

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#114

Post by fdfdfdf55 »

toyg wrote: post #105
fdfdfdf55 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You missed your chance then - treaties already require member countries to defer to European rules where conflicting.

My country has a supreme law written in 1978. Any other law that conflicts with this one is illegal and must be repelled. Anyone who wants to overturn our 1978 law is effectively declaring war to us.

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#115

Post by xoa »

mwidell wrote: post #87

I love my Apple Watch ultra, because with cellular I can use it as a phone – a very lightweight phone without social media distractions. But I have to say I am a little bit uneasy about having a cellphone strapped to my arm. Someone with physics knowledge please calm me down?

>Someone with physics knowledge please calm me down?

All radio is non-ionizing EM, far lower frequency then visible light, thermal, etc. UV, Xrays, and gamma rays are in the opposite direction, higher frequency. Radio cannot do anything except minor amounts of heating, and at milliwatts of transmission power and inverse square law that's REALLY minor amounts of heating. There is no link to any sort of health effects from indirect distant exposure by far, far stronger things like radar or people working at AM/FM radio transmitters, nor any plausible theoretical one (though of course one should be careful with raw high power stuff that could create enough heat to cook, as well as the high voltage components that power it). Just in terms of natural exposure we face endless things that cause vastly stronger thermal effects.

I don't know if that's enough to calm you down, or if the entire planet going to massive wireless usage in the span of a decade and over a decade later no discernible significant related physical health effects (mental/social effects aside here, which are real but software not hardware) makes you feel better, but if nothing else don't get scammed by people who lump all "RADIATION!!" together as if the photoelectric effect and quantum mechanics was never discovered. Nor get hyperfocused on some specific tiny but "new" seeming device while ignoring the ginormously bigger ones around you take for granted and never think about (rightly in most cases).

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#116

Post by marcinzm »

j16sdiz wrote: post #84
JacobSeated wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aspartame is still fine, and it is one of the most researched substances. This type of reasoning, that you are using, is down right unscientific, conspiratorial, and dangerous. https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/aspartame-and-cancer/

How is it "unscientific" when we know they are 99.99% unrelated, but you want at least 99.99999% to feel safe? Aspartame, unlike sugar, are non-essential. If somebody don't want to take that 0.000000001% risk, I guess they should be free to make their choice?

The general issue I've found with people that take this mindset is that they focus so much on the 0.000000001% risks that they miss a lot of 1% risks. Which I would say is unscientific in terms of minimizing ones risks.

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#117

Post by [deleted] »

fdfdfdf55 wrote: post #114
toyg wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed your chance then - treaties already require member countries to defer to European rules where conflicting.

My country has a supreme law written in 1978. Any other law that conflicts with this one is illegal and must be repelled. Anyone who wants to overturn our 1978 law is effectively declaring war to us.

[deleted]

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#118

Post by cmsj »

paulmd wrote: post #100

Worth noting that this is due to the French regulators applying the same SAR absorption standard as the rest of the EU but at a closer distance. Obviously radiation follows the inverse square law so this means you absorb more radiation in France ;) Even despite this reduced allowable emission the iPhone is barely out of compliance, they will need to reduce power less than 10% or simply get another few millimeters far…

Thanks, I did wonder how, given the pretty strict physics of... physics, they could be claiming that the iPhone is compliant at 5cm and not at 0cm!

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#119

Post by pcdoodle »

Mistletoe wrote: post #4

Is the 12 Mini included?

I'd assume the same baseband firmware but antenna slightly different. I have one too. I think the SAR test is pretty laughable but also would rather have it done than not.

I'd really like to know what bands its speaking on when exceeding the values (2G/LTE-x).

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#120

Post by mikae1 »

tmpX7dMeXU wrote: post #101
BossingAround wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly doubt literally anyone in the government cares about Apple marketing

“The government” is big. Lots of people, caring about lots of things. Did you want to be less absolute in your claim?

The iPhone 12 is a three year old device. I'm not sure what parade they'd be raining on.
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