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The Death of Unity

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Re: The Death of Unity

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard a lot about Godot but the last time I really looked into it, years ago at this point, it wasn't quite ready for prime time. Is it ready nowadays? Looking at their showcase it seems I've played a few games using it without knowing.

> Is it ready nowadays? What does "ready" mean?

"Can you develop and ship a non-trivial game with it, ideally on multiple platforms, without spending loads of time debugging the internals of the engine?"

Re: The Death of Unity

#122
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd expect it to be equivalent since the task the engines are doing is well within both of their respective capabilities. The engine is not simulating any of the factory logistics, that's all going to be bespoke code by the game dev and so there's no major reason to expect unity or unreal to behave meaningfully different here.

Sure there is: C# is substantially less performant than C++ code.

C# has a pretty good FFI system that can call into C++ code. Unity itself does that, after all, it's not entirely written in C#

Re: The Death of Unity

#123
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If I bought a nail gun, a saw, a pile of wood, and proceeded to build a house, did DeWalt actually build that structure? Any reasonable person would say no. You seem to have the same thought process that people had about computer animation. For some reason, many people were under the impression that just because it happens on the computer, you can simply ask Maya to create a full-length animated feature. The platform…

We still call Sears Homes, Sears Homes.

I don't agree with their conclusion, but I don't think this is a good corollary either: Unity and co are providing an immense amount of value, a hell of a lot more than giving people a nail gun.

At the end of the day what I don't get is all the hypotheticals based on if you release a paid game that does insanely well on the personal plan.

If you have 2 million installs and make 2 million dollars, Unity is taking 50k + 185 and Unreal is taking 60k. Considering the mobile scene and what Unity offers for monetization realistically they're positioned to offer a lot more than 10k in value to you.

Re: The Death of Unity

#124

IPO's are usually the beginning of the end as far as a company being responsive to its customers and producing quality. From the time an IPO is made, the company is responsive only to its shareholders and that's it. Thanks, Bork and Friedman!

A thought occurred to me a few weeks ago... it was another Hacker News thread, forget which, but someone had mentioned the specific case law which cemented this fact. Maybe it was Ford himself? The details escape me, but afterwards, companies were forced to prioritize shareholders above all else. But legislators aren't exactly forbidden from creating new types of companies. As ignorant as I am of most things business…

> specific case law which cemented this fact. Maybe it was Ford himself? The details escape me, but afterwards, companies were forced to prioritize shareholders above all else.

I think there was a thread (don't recall if I saw it on HN or reddit). Someone said Dodge brothers (?) sued Ford (?) because Ford was trying to give it's employee raises (?) or reducing their working hours (?).

Re: The Death of Unity

#125

Well, I write one thing: https://godotengine.org/

I've just started a project with big scope (for me) and after futzing around with lots of different frameworks/engines/languages, I restarted the project again (part of my process with some of my projects) using Godot 4. After some initial confusion, which is largely the fact that I have more of a "terminal" kind of coding experience, or just building everything from scratch and thereby escaping learning a bunch of APIs, I started to realize the "why" of things like nodes and signals.

Now I'm learning a lot and decided to stick with Godot for this project. My restarting phase is over and I'm moving forward now! I've been really enjoying it! The more I use it I really like it.

A funny experience today, in part due to google being "not terrible" these days (as we say in French), was looking up internationalization. The first hit was a youtube video that was in Indonesian with no subtitles. But in two minutes the guy showed the file structure and whatnot and it's super easy to use.

Sometimes (always-ish?) the docs don't provide examples, which I think would be helpful, and sometimes error messages could be different like, instead of "wrong args on function" it could tell you what the right ones are (like Rust), and I don't know how to refactor other than manually which is different when you're used to IntelliJ, but these are minor gripes.

Overall this experience reminds me of what got me into coding with Flash when I was a whippersnapper, when I felt it was really fun. It feels like you can make whatever you can dream of happen.

Then I read about Unity here today and how sell-outy they are acting it reminds me of another reason to continue using open source, or free software like Godot, or Reaper (free-ish) or Blender. We are starting to have really high quality options these days.

I really hope Godot forges foreward and I hope the ethics continue to serve independent devs. And I really hope there's less breaking changes than 3 -> 4, because it makes it kind of tricky to find references online when a lot of syntax changes. But hey I love python and I got into it in early v.3 days when most stuff was v.2 so I just started with the then bleedy version and that's what I'm doing with gdscript also using v.4 and so I guess I may just have good version timing when I start a language, that is if gdscript can become a little bit more backwards compatible at some point. But also, do what must be done. Sometimes things do need to change so I get that, but at a certain point in time there "should" be a baseline compatibility with self (IMHO) in software. Or to me, that is part of what makes software good.

Also if I'm talking to one with such power, can we pretty please have list comprehensions? And also if the gods desire, can we have the format string from python?

  comprehended_list = [v for v in a_list if condition]
  comprehended_dict = {k:v for k,v in a_dict.items()}
  formatted_str = f"typing stuff and then {any_typed_var}"
  # This basically calls the var's __str__() and then __repr__() as backup
Anyway this post is not meant to sound complainy, or begging (for slightly more pythonicism) but more so as funny although I'm not. Badum-Ching, I'll see myself out. Seriously though I think Godot is awesome. Please keep up the good work. Although I don't understand the "why" of being like python and then not. Like why rename .lower() to .to_lower()?

Re: The Death of Unity

#126
post #23
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who’s played a lot of games… I disagree. These days I specifically avoid Unity games because they always feel janky, and yes it absolutely is the engine.

Do you think Rust and Escape From Tarkov are janky? (just off the top of my head) https://rust.facepunch.com https://www.escapefromtarkov.com

Tarkov, while a great game, is very janky, and has a cheater problem. I have heard these things attributed to Unity, though I am not familiar enough with the details to say that's absolutely true.

Rust is fine though, in my experience. (and yes I do mean the video game in this context, hahaha)

Re: The Death of Unity

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unreal is the best comparison but the original statement isn't entirely bullshit. What Unity did (as does Unreal) is make the game engine more as a platform as the goal in and of itself. That is, wide feature set, mostly stable APIs, incorporating developer feedback, deprecation/evolution paths, etc... whereas other engines like idTech are more like a static library drop that you're expected to then tweak & adjust to…

RenderWare is a better comparison than Unreal, since Unreal was developed first as an engine for a flagship game and only later licensed out. From Wikipedia on RenderWare: It was licensed over 200 times. The scope went towards an integrated middleware with low level APIs for rendering, physics, audio, AI all of which are extensible through plug-ins which also serve the official high-level API. The aim was to reduce t…

> since Unreal was developed first as an engine for a flagship game and only later licensed out.

I was more referring to "modern" Unreal. Like UE4 didn't have any flagship game associated with it, at least not at launch. That transition seems to have happened over the life of UE3 which started life associated with a flagship game & genre, but by the end of it was a lot more diverse (such as Infinity Blade on iOS)

Good point about RenderWare, though

Re: The Death of Unity

#128
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have evidence for that claim? My understanding is that Apple takes their cut after any refunds have been settled[1], and the same appears to be true for Steam[2]. 1: https://www.revenuecat.com/blog/growth/does-apple-keep-its-c... 2: https://www.techradar.com/news/how-steam-refunds-are-a-bless...

Also worth noting that the unity fee only takes effect once you're making a pretty large amount of revenue, so most devs will be unaffected. Still shitty and I'm glad I made the switch to Godot a few months ago, but not as bad as people are making it out to be.

Revenue isn’t profit. So if you build a toy game and it takes off without a solid business and pricing plan you could be stuck and have to shut it down. Seems like that makes Unity is a very bad place to start.

Re: The Death of Unity

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is meaningless without percentages. How many devs didn't release their games for each game in this list?

This is not meaningless as the message i replied to claimed that developers who write their own game engine do not finish and publish games. That was factually incorrect. What you are asking for is something completely different and unless humanity had some sort of hivemind to have universal knowledge, we can't really know as people start and abandon projects all the time. The best we can do is some heavily biased gu…

Only programmers deal in absolutes.
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