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Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

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201–210 of 348 posts

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#201

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My girlfriend's sister suffers from Long Covid for going on 2yrs now. Some of the problems she had early on is that most doctors wrote her off as either lying or anxiety. More than one ER doc said there's no way that Covid could ever cause lasting symptoms other than lung damage, which she didn't have, so it's likely just anxiety. There was one DO she saw, during an admit for tachycardia, who said that he believed th…

> but trying to get his colleagues to believe it would be an uphill battle You have to go through a lot of education to become a doctor, so people naturally expect doctor's to be wise, but the truth is they are just good a memorizing things. They aren't necessarily smarter than any other person and have just as many blindspots. * Source: My dad and uncle are doctors. My brother in law is a doctor. I have a friend who…

I dated a med school student for all of medschool and some rotations. Thus I have countless doctor friends now from those years. Everytime I bring up the reality of what most doctors are like, I get downvoted on HN for some reason.

The doctor I dated for years never drank water. She loved diet coke. She ate mcdonalds constantly but avoided the bun. She was skinny though. I had to teach her how to pump gas because her dad did it for her until she was 22. She loved cocaine and moly. Currently cycles Adderall and Ritalin (or something very similar) so she doesnt get too used to one or the other. I could list 20 other 'wtf?' type of things about her. Most others are similarly weird, careless, unhealthy, confused and logicless.

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#202

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>It is beyond me how people can deny post viral syndromes. I feel part of the problem is we don't really have any good treatments for it. I know my doctor put it down as post viral tiredness but when I asked how long it might last or what I could do about it he just shrugged his shoulders.

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Isn’t this the diet that killed Steve Jobs?

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#203
post #178

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Pacing would also help the body remove waste from the tissues, so it may actually be physically treating a physical cause, FYI.

What is the mechanism of action there? Which specific type of waste?

In other tissues, muscle action drives the fluid back to the circulatory system. (Remember, the heart is just a big muscle. So this makes perfect sense.) So exercise dramatically increases the rate at which interstitial fluid gets returned to the circulatory system.

This means that one of the functions of exercise is "taking out the trash." And this is likely a huge and overlooked factor in why exercise is so beneficial to your health.

Different sources cite different rates, but exercise may increase the outflow by as much as eight times the normal speed of outflow via seepage. It's really a big difference.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25427090

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#205

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>It is beyond me how people can deny post viral syndromes. I feel part of the problem is we don't really have any good treatments for it. I know my doctor put it down as post viral tiredness but when I asked how long it might last or what I could do about it he just shrugged his shoulders.

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Why 90 days ? Why juice ? And what's supposed to happen ?

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#206

Isn't it pretty well-known that many diseases/disorders are likely from post-viral infection? Howard Bloom who famously had CFS for decades talked about how he had a bad flu that never got better and his long recovery from it. https://medicalerrorinterviews.podbean.com/e/howard-bloom-pa... Michael J Fox who famously has Parkinson's mentioned being sick in his documentary "Still" while filming "Leo and Me" where other…

Why is it such an issue that people deny it? Viruses can cause organ tissue damages, that's enough for me to believe a virus can cause all sort of "syndromes" I'm not on the denier side but harass me with fear, threats, and free movement mandates and I will deny that syndromes even exist.

I think it's simply because no normal human wants to know that they're permanently damaged. It's a real tough pill to swallow. You have to be very comfortable with your own mortality.

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#207
post #95

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You’re totally right that worse somatic symptoms create a viscipus cycle of avoidance and worsening symptoms. I do think that a chronic pattern of avoidance is what causes somatizing in the first place tho. Peace.

You might think that but it doesn’t heal anyone. Recovery rates for cfs are abysmal, I’m surprised you aren’t ashamed of your profession’s performance in this area. You seem comfortable placing responsibility for the illness on your patients “avoidance”. Yet it is initiated by a virus and everyone has different levels of mitochondrial density, resilience and health and different inflammatory cascades. “Avoidance” of…

> You seem comfortable placing responsibility for the illness on your patients “avoidance”.

You are misunderstanding this. Subconscious avoidance is not about responsibility. Think of the way rabies makes people hydrophobic. That is a psychosomatic response. A person is not in firm "control" of these responses, although they sometimes can be addressed with therapy.

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#208

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Why ground beef?

Because I have tried it many times and my body has some intense urge for beef, and ground beef IMO is the easiest to make, digest, and cheapest and has fats that are good for you IMO.

Some people think poorly of ground beef because "you don't know what's in it!" But moments later will tell you it's important to eat all parts of the animal because they have different nutrients. Ok then, sounds like ground beef is a good way to get different portions a butcher doesn't think sells well. Give me some foot meat, bring it on.

There's also the fact that beef is basically the one food you could eat alone 365 days a year your whole life and get everything you need. That doesn't apply to vegetables or chicken or anything else really.

Tldr; many people would say someone that eats a HUGE salad and some meat everyday, no breads or processed garbage would be healthy. Well, drinking 10 lbs of vegetables and having some ground beef is basically that except you're drinking more vegetables even that most people could ever eat in a day.

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#209
post #91

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I think conditioning medical students to race other medical students to label health problems quickly- efectively turning medical school into a sleep deprived game of trivial pursuit for competitive, high IQ, mentally resilient, energetic people - only prepares those people to heal simple medical conditions involving 1 or 2 body systems. This functionality is becoming largely replaceble by llm’s who are also competen…

I have CFS too, going on 8 years now. Small fibre neuropathy in my limbs too. Aside from pain management (opioids, ketamine, cannabis), I haven't found anything else to be helpful, and pacing was the opposite of helpful. You mentioned strength training... how is that possible? I don't know about you, but I have a constant, lactic acid-like burning sensation in my arms, which becomes much worse upon exertion - for exa…

Because the best way to think about the syndrome is that you are a really terrible athlete.

I find it a healthy way to reframe what I’m dealing with.

I laughed at Eric the Eel, he’s laghing at me taking out the rubbish now.

They say athleticism is a reduction in recovery period.

Combine this with the fact the brain burns loads of energy and certain aspects of the brain uses things like the inner ear and vagal nerves and lateral light receptors as specialised instrumentation to save processing power when coordinating one’s balance. (I swear one day they will figure out lying down in the dark convalescing can affect the potassium concentration of your inner ear to the point you get stuck in fatigue cycle but any how).

Keeping your head steady while walking saves mental energy. A stronger thoracic spine and neck keeps your head steady for longer with out fatiguing the muscles or the mind.

Everytime you overtrain there is a inflammatory cascade that goes with the overtraining. Building up physical body strength is the easiest way to generate athleticism.

Once you can recover without fatigue you don’t have chronic fatigue.

I also think stabilising the thoracic area helps get a neurogenesis/cellular regenerationtype response going in the spinal cord that was ravaged by a viral load.

Basically if someone is strong enough to recover from an illness they recover. If they aren’t they don’t. Hunching over screens for long periods with only stress holding you up before convalescing is probably the worst preparation for cfs. Accounting is the worst profession for it. Their low autonomy detailed complex work that is surveyed in 6 minute intervals so they have a large forced cognitive loads for a long time periods combined with minimal physical exertion. It is an anti-athletic career for a lots of people who struggle with the cognitive load.

But the docs are also right anout a psychological component - whinging doesn’t help, there is a grit component to getting better. There is also lots of overtraining while you get better which is helpful to understand. Recovery is 3 steps forward 1 step back. (My whole point is help the poor person in the brainfog choose the next best recovery step and I also understand it isn’t Drs fault they haven’t the tools to do it because there is no profit motive to create the recovery system). Exercise physiologists are really helpful for avoiding overtraining but I also think you are better taking some overtraining hits initially on the strength training side if you aren’t wealthy to get the body to the point that it escapes can escape some of the fatigue.

Strength train to at least the point of sideplanks and throw in lots of propioception band balance exercises. And remember there is 24 to 72 hour delay to overtraining. Docs do have extreme amounts of grit as do successful accountants. They are admirable but also lucky, their dopamine systems are genetically robust.

I started strength training with a fragmented swimmers stretch. 1 limb at a time. The good thing about body strength training is you see progress which is important for hope. Which is another important aspect of recovery and dopamine generation.

I couldn’t sit and work for more than 20 minutes for about 3 years. I tried to design my own cheap reclining chair so I could lie back and stare at a screen for long enough to earn some money.

The other name for cfs is myalgicencephalomyelitis which means inflammation of the thoracic spine up to the brain. Really you are trying to get the body into a band that it can operate comfortably without causing inflammation to the point that you can earn a living. And being physically strong helps with that.

Exercising your arms will aggravate your thoracic spine. I guess I’m saying train for thoracic and cervical stability (strength) accepting some overtraining initially because it is really hard to judge what is overtraining when you are weak. You have to be really patient. 3 steps forward one step back. If you can only hold a kettle bell for a few seconds then don’t. Just work on swimmers stretches and banded propioception and neck and spine strengthening exercises, you will easily overdo it trust me. Try not to. Physios and exercise physiologists deal with alot of overtrained virally unlucky athletes and are probably your best source of guidance on this facet of recovery.

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Why 90 days ? Why juice ? And what's supposed to happen ?

Because 90 days is long enough to see results for most people, but not so long that it's an impossible time frame.

Because drinking 10 lbs of vegetables is doable, but eating them is almost impossible raw. If you cook them, it's still hard to eat 10 lbs of vegetables and you've killed a lot of nutrients. Because it gives your body a break from digestion.

You'll feel a lot better.

Edit: even those that think the idea of vegetable juice curing anything is goofy basically have to admit that it forces you to avoid process junk for 90 days, and 'eat' tons of vegetables only. Which in itself is bound to fix a decent amount of things bothering people. You could argue that someone could just eat the vegetables, but it's very hard to get 1000-1500 calories just eating (chewing) raw vegetables. So juice them for 90 days. You won't feel too weak, and you'll give your body a break from digestion and from processed garbage.

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