Isn't it pretty well-known that many diseases/disorders are likely from post-viral infection? Howard Bloom who famously had CFS for decades talked about how he had a bad flu that never got better and his long recovery from it. https://medicalerrorinterviews.podbean.com/e/howard-bloom-pa... Michael J Fox who famously has Parkinson's mentioned being sick in his documentary "Still" while filming "Leo and Me" where other…
Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin
151–160 of 348 posts
Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes so - I have noticed my patients will often get surprising benefit from some random medication, dietary change, etc. But usually, unless they deal with the underlying emotional dynamic of avoidance/push-through, etc, the improvement will not be resilient. Ie the symptoms return after a while...
What of the fact that my father and I both get painless clicking when we open our jaws too wide? Unless I'm having an arthritis flare, it doesn't hurt at all, but every dentist I've ever seen has pointed it out with curiosity. That certainly seems like a mechanical issue. My immediate reaction here is that casting (my) TMJ pain as a matter of emotional avoidance feels a tad dismissive, tbh. Particularly when the pain…
Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin
#153Isn't it pretty well-known that many diseases/disorders are likely from post-viral infection? Howard Bloom who famously had CFS for decades talked about how he had a bad flu that never got better and his long recovery from it. https://medicalerrorinterviews.podbean.com/e/howard-bloom-pa... Michael J Fox who famously has Parkinson's mentioned being sick in his documentary "Still" while filming "Leo and Me" where other…
Why is it such an issue that people deny it? Viruses can cause organ tissue damages, that's enough for me to believe a virus can cause all sort of "syndromes" I'm not on the denier side but harass me with fear, threats, and free movement mandates and I will deny that syndromes even exist.
When those new findings challenge our current understanding, we get smarter as a species and work to alleviate the suffering by investing more money and time into these matters.
Points aside, your third point is largely concerning.
Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is it such an issue that people deny it? Viruses can cause organ tissue damages, that's enough for me to believe a virus can cause all sort of "syndromes" I'm not on the denier side but harass me with fear, threats, and free movement mandates and I will deny that syndromes even exist.
* fatigue is something everyone feels sometimes and the answer is to push through it for most people * it’s impossible to observe fatigue objectively, it just appears people are lazy or low energy * there’s no known (or at least there wasn’t last time I researched it) bio markers for CFS * there’s no known evidence of viruses causes CFS, just speculation Etc Things have changed a lot over the last 30 years. I think m…
I think most doctors accept that CFS is real, but I also think most doctors would not call a somatic illness fake. See for instance these researchers [0] who are research somatic causes yet all agree there is a physical/hereditary component. Anxiety disorders also have a hereditary component and they aren't fake.
[0]: https://theguardian.com/society/2011/aug/21/chronic-fatigue-...
Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin
#155Isn't it pretty well-known that many diseases/disorders are likely from post-viral infection? Howard Bloom who famously had CFS for decades talked about how he had a bad flu that never got better and his long recovery from it. https://medicalerrorinterviews.podbean.com/e/howard-bloom-pa... Michael J Fox who famously has Parkinson's mentioned being sick in his documentary "Still" while filming "Leo and Me" where other…
I feel part of the problem is we don't really have any good treatments for it. I know my doctor put it down as post viral tiredness but when I asked how long it might last or what I could do about it he just shrugged his shoulders.
Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my case, the CFS like syndrome was all in my head in the worst fashion possible. After COVID, I developed a cross reactive species of antibody targeting my hippocampus and the opioid receptors in my brain. I have been bedridden since I was 17. I also manifested severe orthostatic intolerance and peripheral neuropathy that put me in the lowest 1 percent of neurite density. I was diagnosed at Mass General Hospital a…
Auto Immune Disorder (IBD in my case) sufferer here. I sometimes wonder why we're all not more annoyed that we get sent to specialists for the parts of our body (GI in my case) where the immune system is causing most damage at a given moment who will ask questions about other symptoms that we now have a good idea are likely the result of the same inflammation (depression, joint pain, peripheral neuropathy, CFS, etc.…
As a person with Multiple Sclerosis seeing a neurologist I have been wondering this very thing since my diagnosis. I am on a B-cell depleting drug. It feels silly talking to my neurologist about my B cells. Lots of tests to determine neurological function, but very little tests done on immune function.
Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
Please ask your doctor if supplements are right for you and how much.
While supplements can help, nothing been sun on your skin for vitamin D and also for other help benefits - in moderation of course. If someone's doctor has told them to get outside more and they find it is helping, I would not personally recommend someone stays in and just take supplements as an alternative.
Too many doctors are quick to look at a person and their lifestyle and just say "welp, get outside, get more active, lose some weight, get some sun"
There are cases where supplements or medication are completely valid.
How many (primarily women, but some men), have hypothyrodism. I know of at least 3 other women in my life who, instead of the doctor listening to their symptoms, just kept recommending "eat better, exercise more, lose weight".
No. There was a serious problem. And a problem which literally makes those three things almost impossible. And can be detected with a simple blood draw.
One of my friends finally went to an urgent care, they did the test, prescribed levo with a "follow up with her doctor", and the doctor wouldn't renew the prescription because she was just "inactive and retaining water". Of course at this point she switched doctors to one that wasn't a misogynist.
Same thing with vitamin D. If you live above 37 degrees of latitude, chances are you are taking vitamin D most of the year because "sun on your skin" just ain't happening.
Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
You might think that but it doesn’t heal anyone. Recovery rates for cfs are abysmal, I’m surprised you aren’t ashamed of your profession’s performance in this area. You seem comfortable placing responsibility for the illness on your patients “avoidance”. Yet it is initiated by a virus and everyone has different levels of mitochondrial density, resilience and health and different inflammatory cascades. “Avoidance” of…
> I do think there is a chronic pattern of some doctors avoiding shame at their self-perceived inadequacies caused by their medical school trivial pursuit trauma conditioning that is useless for complex problem solving and then projecting that shame onto their patients in order to minimise the cognitive dissonance surrounding their ineffective treatment plans for chronic conditions The fact that patients consistently…
Well, it’s a vicious circle isn’t it? A lot of issues are dismissed by the medical community (and I disagree with the characterization that “it’s somatic” isn’t dismissive in practice) for decades and decades and simply not studied, until the cause can be medicalized and then suddenly it was real the whole time.
It’s not just that “patients are being irrational and picking up the wrong message”, that’s actually the same message that the medical community itself projects. These aren’t real issues worthy of study unless a causal mechanism can be identified. And for a lot of issues that’s simply been a matter of time, despite decades of doctors insisting it’s all just in your head.
Fibromyalgia and cystic fibrosis are classic examples of this. People have real, objective pain and the response of the medical field for years and years was “no you don’t” or “it’s in your head, you’re just stressed, you need to relax and it’ll go away”.
Microbiome is probably another that the needle is starting to swing on.
But in general, medical practice suffers heavily from the problem that if you can’t identify a mechanism, and you can’t prescribe a pill or cut something out to make it go away, it’s not treated as real. Medicalization is real and has a highly negative outcome on the direction of research in the field. And that in turn produces this barrier where doctors just want to make “somatic” patients go away and patients perceive this and know doctors aren’t really taking the issues seriously. And that degrades their trust in doctors and the medical community and creates this barrier to patient outcomes. That is largely your fault and not the patients, and the answer isn’t just “better bedside manner/explain the situation better”, it’s to stop ignoring issues that have negative QOL effects until they can be medicalized and then turning it into a $50k/y drug the next year.
It’s really that flip from “your pain isn’t real” to “it’s so real you’re going to have to pay $50k a year to treat it” that really drives the wedge. And that’s something of a US-specific problem of course.
But when people are paying $300 out of pocket for a GP visit they actually expect their concerns to be taken seriously and not just “it’s all in your head”. And I recognize that’s not a great position for practitioners either but again, the price tag you have chosen to associate your care with produces this need for acfual tangible outcomes and not “just change your whole life and make a bunch more money and life a much lower-stress life”. That simply is not actionable to most people. Just like semaglutide has done more for obesity than decades of doctor tutting about diet.
And again, this piles on top of doctors themselves providing objectively sub-standard care for vulnerable populations due to inherent biases etc - women, obese, etc tend to have actual medical symptoms dismissed at highly elevated rates due to inherent biases in practitioners, so these “weird” diseases tend to get the double whammy of doctors who don’t believe in the disease and doctors who don’t believe in the patient.
My aunt’s uterine tumor wasn’t clinically recognized until it was the size of a volleyball and all her pains were dismissed because of weight and because she was a woman. Imagine she had fibromyalgia. What do you think that doctor-patient relationship looks like? And that’s really on doctors not patients. This is the problem with the “we can’t recognize it and won’t treat it” - a lot of times the problem is doctors won’t recognize it, and this extends to the system of diagnoses itself. If it can’t be medicalized it’s not real.
Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I do think there is a chronic pattern of some doctors avoiding shame at their self-perceived inadequacies caused by their medical school trivial pursuit trauma conditioning that is useless for complex problem solving and then projecting that shame onto their patients in order to minimise the cognitive dissonance surrounding their ineffective treatment plans for chronic conditions The fact that patients consistently…
> The fact that patients consistently react in this way (or worse) I think is why we rarely discuss true causes of CFS nowadays in the medical industry. Well, it’s a vicious circle isn’t it? A lot of issues are dismissed by the medical community (and I disagree with the characterization that “it’s somatic” isn’t dismissive in practice) for decades and decades and simply not studied, until the cause can be medicalized…
There are plenty of people studying somatic causes of CFS, they just get death threats [0].
I think the focus should be on destigmatizing 'somatic' explanations. That we view somatic explanations as dismissive for real conditions is not a problem with the explanation because some real conditions are psychosomatic and that is a fact of life. It is a problem with the stigma we assign to it.
[0]: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/aug/21/chronic-fati...
Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
To me this seems suspiciously like confusing heightened awareness of a problem, or inability to treat it early, with cause. People who seem likely to be diagnosed seem less likely to happily sleep for 12 hours a day for a few weeks after a viral infection, more likely to blame themselves for their state and more stressed by awareness that something is wrong. Naturally, if a rich layabout has the problem anyway, then…
> To me this seems suspiciously like confusing heightened awareness of a problem, or inability to treat it early, with cause. Heightened awareness of a problem can be related to the cause - these are not distinct. The comorbidities of ME/CFS make it look very similar to known psychosomatic conditions. Researchers who explore psychological-heritable causes have been forced to stop due to death threats.