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Networking for introverts

economist.com

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Re: Networking for introverts

#81

Post by twobitshifter »

Tycho wrote: post #11

I think extroversion and introversion are just orthogonal skill sets. The solution can simply be “get better at extroversion.” For instance, small talk. You may style yourself as someone too intellectual to be entertained by small talk, and profess to be terrible at making small talk. This is to misunderstand the value proposition of small talk, which is to establish trust and rapport with strangers before you commit…

Right there’s nothing preventing introverts from being among the most sociable people. Obama is considered an introvert and so is Gandhi. Both were able to build enormous energy and lead others through their personalities and speech.

I don’t however think it needs to be a goal that leads to being good at small talk. That really comes from agreeableness which is high among some introverts but absent in others. It’s another big 5 personality trait. The idea that small talk is a means to an end is needed if the person is lower on agreeableness and is more critical.

Re: Networking for introverts

#83

Post by montgomery_r »

I read the article and remembered why I cancelled my sub to The Economist. This was written by an intern who had half read the research paper with 15 minutes to filing deadline. LI/virtual and physical networking aren't the same, and, per comments, the author had not taken the trouble to understand what an introvert is. Poor stuff.

Re: Networking for introverts

#84

Post by wood_spirit »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #75
chefandy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... in the context of career networking... Everybody should just mind their business and leave each other alone?

More that it doesn't need to have a big emphasis on social skills or the people you know, but on merit and skills. Most software development jobs are already like that though, with both face to face interviews and take-home assignments. Some do whiteboard interviews, but I don't really get those because they're not representative of the job you will be expected to do - unless it's for a teaching position.

The practical slot on the interview schedule is typically all there is to stop hopeless and BSing people from getting programming jobs and then being a hugely expensive mistake. If you sail through it and think there’s no point in the tech whiteboard section then that’s because it’s not aimed at filtering you out?

Re: Networking for introverts

#85

Post by HumblyTossed »

jstx1 wrote: post #54
HumblyTossed wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real secret is to save your energy for the people who are most likely to be interesting to you. I think this is the real gem. There are people who do well socially and are energized by other people. That's not me. I can do well socially, but I have a social battery - people drain me and I need to regularly be recharge by being inside my own head for a while.

It's not that anything drains me, I just can't get myself to pretend to care about strangers.

> ... I just can't get myself to pretend to care about strangers.

That sounds deeper than just being an introvert.

Re: Networking for introverts

#86

Post by piinbinary »

SanderNL wrote: post #58

Don't want to awaken any sleeping dogs here, but what the author describes reminds me more of social anxiety and/or self-esteem issues than introversion. I'm an introvert. I can sit still and not speak to anyone for weeks and be fine. Happier even. Having no-one around recharges me like nothing else. The reverse is true as well which makes me incredibly popular at parties /s. When I was young(er), a networking event…

I think there's at least 3 different dimensions here:

1. Comfort vs. Anxiety: how anxious does a particular interaction make you feel.

2. Introversion vs. Extroversion: are you more recharged or more drained by social interaction in general. (anxiety probably causes people to be more drained than they would otherwise - anxious people probably consider themselves more introverted than they actually are)

3. Awkward vs. Fluid: is handling a social situation correctly hard or automatic? (the expectation of being awkward increases anxiety; anxiety may increase awkwardness)

Some extra dimensions:

- Experience level in a given kind of social interaction

- How much social interaction someone "needs" (e.g. they might get recharged by being social, but not need much charging)

Re: Networking for introverts

#87

Post by chefandy »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #75
chefandy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... in the context of career networking... Everybody should just mind their business and leave each other alone?

More that it doesn't need to have a big emphasis on social skills or the people you know, but on merit and skills. Most software development jobs are already like that though, with both face to face interviews and take-home assignments. Some do whiteboard interviews, but I don't really get those because they're not representative of the job you will be expected to do - unless it's for a teaching position.

First, I'd draw a sharp distinction between social skills and extroversion. Even if you're not compelled to interact with people and guard the energy you expend on socializing, that doesn't mean you aren't good at it. Some of the most charming people I've met have been serious introverts. I hate grinding through DS&A stuff and will avoid doing so at all costs, but I can still do it.

Just like some developers have to put in more effort than others when encountering complex DS&A and other 'hard' skills, some have to put in extra effort with the 'soft' skills-- but both are important parts of a complete professional skill set, and directly contribute to your overall merit. People understand that useful employees can be quiet and many even tolerate having to work a bit to get information out of them at meetings/code reviews/etc. But interacting with coworkers is part of our jobs, and if we always come across as aloof/arrogant/insecure/impatient/put-upon/avoidant/imperious or any other irritating way when interacting with coworkers, we're bad at that part of our jobs.

Edit: To hammer the point home, a couple I'm friends with are IG/TikTok lifestyle influencers. They're both affable and engaging on-camera and in public social engagements, and incredibly naturally attractive. One has even appeared on national television. They have social skills far beyond what most particularly social people have. In their personal lives, they are still quite lovely, but are two of the most reserved, quiet, withdrawn, introverted, cerebral people I've ever encountered. They've cultivated fantastic social skills that they utilize as a professional tool even though it's anathema to their natural tendencies and how they comfortably live their off-camera lives.

Re: Networking for introverts

#88

Post by chefandy »

wood_spirit wrote: post #84
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More that it doesn't need to have a big emphasis on social skills or the people you know, but on merit and skills. Most software development jobs are already like that though, with both face to face interviews and take-home assignments. Some do whiteboard interviews, but I don't really get those because they're not representative of the job you will be expected to do - unless it's for a teaching position.

The practical slot on the interview schedule is typically all there is to stop hopeless and BSing people from getting programming jobs and then being a hugely expensive mistake. If you sail through it and think there’s no point in the tech whiteboard section then that’s because it’s not aimed at filtering you out?

That might have been the initial purpose of whiteboard challenges, but I don't think it usually works out like that.

I can't speak for the person you're replying to, but most people I see who object to whiteboard interviews are upper-level developers that haven't needed to know any of the common whiteboard challenges off the top of their head-- like coding an efficient merge sort in C with proper memory management-- because it's rarely a useful skill in day-to-day work unless you're working with that stuff directly. The people who know that stuff are usually recent grads and people who grind leetcode-- all people who've worked to memorize whiteboard type trivia rather than honing more real-world-applicable coding skills.

Re: Networking for introverts

#89

Post by lolinder »

chefandy wrote: post #60
Lutger wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, the mirror image of this would probably be a meetup for management type folks, with talks praising the efficacy of NOT interrupting your team when doing work requiring deep attention, let them only come to the office when it is really useful, stop doing meetings, etc.

Extroverted developers suffer from interrupts just as much as introverted developers, and I've been interrupted numerous times by very introverted managers. This is a matter of understanding developer workflows and uniquely severe context switching penalty-- not a difference between introverts and extroverts.

I just switched jobs from an extroverted manager to an introverted one, and the difference is night and day. My new manager doesn't feel the need to talk to me except for at scheduled times or if I reach out to him. Outside of those windows, I'm free to focus 100%. I don't think he is doing it on purpose, it's just the most natural way for him to act.

My previous manager couldn't stay in his seat for more than two hours at a time without coming over and talking to me—sometimes about work, but often about politics or whatever else was on his mind. He could have used a training session along the lines of what OP proposes.

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