Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs • Hacker News Board

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#341

Post by vacuity » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 3:47 PM UTC

Zetice wrote: post #326

vacuity wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time, if a surplus of noncitizens enter and suddenly the country's ability to provide for all of its people is strained, wouldn't that be a grave disservice to the citizens? What would be the difference between a citizen and a noncitizen then? Not that a country like the US is reasonably providing for a large portion of the populace anyways, so I suppose that's a moot point right now.

No, as these people who are part of the influx, once accepting the social contract, are no better or worse than anyone else who has agreed to the social contract, citizen or no. Besides, all evidence suggests immigrants benefit a society substantially more than they harm it. In the US for example, noncitizens consume significantly fewer national resources while still paying the full amount of taxes expected of citize…

I don't deny that immigrants are beneficial at the moment. However, some people aren't going to have jobs. Besides, it's not as if noncitizens should be paid less just because they can survive with those wages. I'm saying that if the US actually cared for all of its people, I'll say present immigrants included, there won't be room for an arbitrary number of new immigrants. Are you going to try to stretch that limit until something bad happens? I have no interest in excluding people of "other races" or something like that, but pragmatically, I think the line needs to be drawn somewhere at some point.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#342

Post by donnie12345 » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 3:49 PM UTC

onetimeusename wrote: post #329

greatpostman wrote: post #13

Generally not supposed to say this out loud, but being the only American on an all H1B team at these companies can be absolutely brutal. Very alienating, always missing out on back channel communications, no sympathy for missteps

My ex gf is here on H1B and so is all her friend group. I feel bad for her situation, it adds a layer of stress but the way they treat the visa is disrespectful to Americans I think. For example, they are generally of the mindset that Americans are stupider and lazier than them which is why they are here. So they will vent their frustrations on Americans by calling us stupid and lazy and entitled because we have citi…

Her ethnicity ? If you don't mind

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#343

Post by vacuity » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 3:50 PM UTC

Zetice wrote: post #247

ecf wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All well and good but I never mentioned performance. Of course they’re able to do the job, no doubts there. But the bottom line is US companies are firing US workers not because they need to, but because they want an excuse to hire cheaper workers through an immigration program.

There is nothing at all special about a US worker. Welcome to the world, where people who aren’t from or in the US also need to feed their families, and have just as much a right to do so as Americans do.

Welcome to the world, where people who are from the US need to feed their families, and have just as much a right to do so as immigrants do.

See the issue? Just because we accept immigrants and they benefit the economy doesn't mean everyone is magically happy. Do you think the US should support every poor person in the world? Can it?

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#344

Post by mrtksn » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 3:50 PM UTC

i_am_a_peasant wrote: post #287

mrtksn wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, isn't it considered impolite to speak in a language that someone in the group doesn't understand? When I was in Germany, Germans even texted their SO in English in case I glance over their phones. Maybe the group I was in was exceptionally welcoming but everywhere in Europe where I lived(EU, non-EU, UK etc.) it was always considered rude to speak a language that others don't understand and everyone alway…

I don't know where in germany you worked at but most offices here are not nearly as english friendly, in my experience it's quite rare and more than half the IT jobs still expect you to know some German otherwise it's a non starter.

>I don't know where in germany

Frankfurt, non-IT job. I guess the mileage varies.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#345

Post by reducesuffering » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 3:52 PM UTC

wenebego wrote: post #122

iepathos wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't understand what slavery is. Slaves don't get paid and it isn't voluntary. H1B are paid and is entirely voluntary. The reason foreigners accept and compete for the positions is because the pay is better than the positions they can get locally. Calling that slavery is ignorant and an insult to anyone alive or historically who has suffered actual slave labor.

If you need to work to survive, you are a wage slave

All your hunter gatherer and farmer ancestors were wage slaves apparently

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#346

Post by costanzaDynasty » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 3:54 PM UTC

greatpostman wrote: post #13

Generally not supposed to say this out loud, but being the only American on an all H1B team at these companies can be absolutely brutal. Very alienating, always missing out on back channel communications, no sympathy for missteps

My last couple of jobs(non tech) almost everyone I talked to on a daily basis was ESL. It was great as an introvert because they could talk around me and about me while I kept to myself. Now Im in tech with all English speakers there's no escape from the slights. Id love to be only a team of ESL people, because now it's like highshcool. The only time they talk to me now is for baiting too cute by half questions and comments.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#347

Post by Zetice » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 3:54 PM UTC

vacuity wrote: post #341

Zetice wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, as these people who are part of the influx, once accepting the social contract, are no better or worse than anyone else who has agreed to the social contract, citizen or no. Besides, all evidence suggests immigrants benefit a society substantially more than they harm it. In the US for example, noncitizens consume significantly fewer national resources while still paying the full amount of taxes expected of citize…

I don't deny that immigrants are beneficial at the moment. However, some people aren't going to have jobs. Besides, it's not as if noncitizens should be paid less just because they can survive with those wages. I'm saying that if the US actually cared for all of its people, I'll say present immigrants included, there won't be room for an arbitrary number of new immigrants. Are you going to try to stretch that limit u…

There is no "pragmatic" limit. As more people arrive, more jobs are needed to support them, more jobs are made available as a larger pool of workers able to do a wider variety of tasks for wages that allow for corporations to turn a profit. It's a self sustaining cycle.

The general rule here is that unless there's an obvious reason to deny equal people something you've given other people, you shouldn't deny it in the first place.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#348

Post by Zetice » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 3:55 PM UTC

jimmygrapes wrote: post #338

Zetice wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deserve means everything in this context, because I, as an American, am discussing with my fellow Americans how our country works and the principles upon which we ought to rule ourselves. Those principles are heavily founded in “deserve”. You are watching some infinitesimally small part of that “ruling” process.

Citizenship is meant to limit external actors influencing the vote of who should represent the people of any given area, and being qualified to represent the people by virtue of a sustained commitment and longevity.

No, it's meant to determine which people have agreed to the social contract. Citizenship is not some sacred thing you must earn; simply agreeing to give up some freedom is all it takes to benefit from the social programs offered by a government.

The bureaucratic concept of "citizenship" is just a way for people to construct barriers of hate around the benefits offered by a nation while still forcing people to accept the sacrifices.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#349

Post by mikhailfranco » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 3:56 PM UTC

mrtksn wrote: post #229

burnerburnson wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a manager of a team that's mostly H1Bs at Google. It's mostly fine but a few of them just refuse improve their English, and it's frustrating spending hours every day just being an English teacher to an engineer who writes at a 5th grade level. The problem with hiring too many H1Bs is they speak to each other in Chinese and thus take forever to become proficient at communicating with the rest of the company. Also,…

Interesting, isn't it considered impolite to speak in a language that someone in the group doesn't understand? When I was in Germany, Germans even texted their SO in English in case I glance over their phones. Maybe the group I was in was exceptionally welcoming but everywhere in Europe where I lived(EU, non-EU, UK etc.) it was always considered rude to speak a language that others don't understand and everyone alway…

Yes, many German and French multi-national companies have English as the official language.

If there is at least one non-local participant in a meeting, or on an email list, then the discourse has to be popped up to English.

This often happens when none of them are native English speakers, e.g. German & Spanish.

There are specific English proficiency tests bound to levels of management - bad English, no promotion.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#350

Post by 2devnull » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 3:56 PM UTC

seaman1921 wrote: post #47

booleandilemma wrote: post #18

I mean, no kidding. Half the people I work with are H-1B. The program takes jobs away from Americans and should be illegal. I want to work with people from my town, not people from halfway across the world.

if you want to pick who you want to work with, maybe start your own company and then you will probably figure out yourself that you need the H-1Bs

Because you compete with other businesses. If labor regulations allow companies to do X, and one or more companies actually do X, then others have to follow suite and do X or be undercut. It’s simply the prisoner’s dilemma but the prisoners are companies and exploiting labor is defecting.