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Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

moneycontrol.com

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Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#331

Post by swalberg »

dccoolgai wrote: post #243
ajmurmann wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what creates more downward pressure on everyone's comp than just getting foreign workers. It artificially creates a group of workers for whom it's significantly harder and more risky to change jobs or simply quit when they are unsatisfied. I think everyone in tech would be better off if you wouldn't lose the H1B quickly if unemployed and if you wouldn't need to rely on an employer doing extra work to sponsor…

Or like... if the actual _company_ that claims it "needs that worker from outside the U.S. so so so much" actually took the risk on instead of foisting it on the poor employee (and by extension, the entire labor market). My 2-step process for fixing the H1-B system. 1. H1Bs are _auctioned_ instead of raffled. You really need that H1B? Prove it - pay for it. 2. Sponsoring companies are responsible for cost of living f…

My issue with "H1B to the highest bidder" is that there's a lot of industries outside of tech that use H1Bs like healthcare, academia, skilled trades, or heck, even fashion models. I think something like that would have to be paired with quotas on the industry otherwise high tech salaries would blow away possibly-even-more-important healthcare and research spots.

As for #2, the main issue now is more of supply and demand. The US only gives out 140,000 employment based green cards a year (plus some from other unused categories), which also includes the worker's families. There are far more ways to get an employment based green card than through H1B. The problems we're hearing about are less to do with the process (which _is_ byzantine) and more to do with that there are not enough green cards to go around.

And just as an aside, there's no labor certification for an H1B, e.g. a company isn't saying they need that worker so so much. A company just wins the lottery and agrees to pay at least what the DoL says is the prevailing wage for the occupation. If they later want to get a green card for that employee, they have to redo the prevailing wage determination AND make an attempt to hire an citizen/GC before they can get the GC (or the employee has to prove they have exceptional skills that gains them international recognition, among other things which includes "being paid way more than your peers")

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#332

Post by vacuity »

Zetice wrote: post #315
peteradio wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would it create a humanitarian crisis?!

Half a million people who wish to leave their country for America would no longer be able to. A great many of those people are operating out of necessity.

What, don't Americans need things too? The logical conclusion of "countries should support their people" is that the countries these people are emigrating from should support them. If a country like the US is doing that well for its people, it can afford to give aid to these other countries, maybe accept a portion of the immigrants. As it stands, it's kind of a lose-lose situation because who cares about caring for their people? Not the US or those countries that people are emigrating en masse from. It's not like the US has the sole responsibility or capability to care for everyone under the sun. That's the reality of the situation, if nothing else.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#333

Post by ajmurmann »

isaacremuant wrote: post #193
ajmurmann wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what creates more downward pressure on everyone's comp than just getting foreign workers. It artificially creates a group of workers for whom it's significantly harder and more risky to change jobs or simply quit when they are unsatisfied. I think everyone in tech would be better off if you wouldn't lose the H1B quickly if unemployed and if you wouldn't need to rely on an employer doing extra work to sponsor…

> There is no real downside to this change for anybody in US society. Well, the downside is for the companies exploiting migrants and those are the ones donating money to the people who make decisions. Lobbying is legally bribing them and the effect is that the politicians don't represent the people who vote for them but the corporations. And No, this is not a cynical take but a factual one.

I'm not sure about this. Maybe the companies would be better off with a system that makes it much easier to hire from wherever they want as well.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#334

Post by whiddershins »

Zetice wrote: post #247
ecf wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All well and good but I never mentioned performance. Of course they’re able to do the job, no doubts there. But the bottom line is US companies are firing US workers not because they need to, but because they want an excuse to hire cheaper workers through an immigration program.

There is nothing at all special about a US worker. Welcome to the world, where people who aren’t from or in the US also need to feed their families, and have just as much a right to do so as Americans do.

So what stops them from doing it in their host country?

And if their host country is non functional what should be done about that?

Are you arguing we should bring back colonialism? Or are you arguing that all the most capable people should live in one rich country and the rest of the world should be an endless slum?

Maybe all these capable people should work to reform and improve the conditions of the country where they are.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#335

Post by ajmurmann »

dccoolgai wrote: post #243
ajmurmann wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what creates more downward pressure on everyone's comp than just getting foreign workers. It artificially creates a group of workers for whom it's significantly harder and more risky to change jobs or simply quit when they are unsatisfied. I think everyone in tech would be better off if you wouldn't lose the H1B quickly if unemployed and if you wouldn't need to rely on an employer doing extra work to sponsor…

Or like... if the actual _company_ that claims it "needs that worker from outside the U.S. so so so much" actually took the risk on instead of foisting it on the poor employee (and by extension, the entire labor market). My 2-step process for fixing the H1-B system. 1. H1Bs are _auctioned_ instead of raffled. You really need that H1B? Prove it - pay for it. 2. Sponsoring companies are responsible for cost of living f…

> Bonus) After reaching a certain threshold of "taxes paid to the U.S." (maybe 300k or something) H1B holders _automatically_ get their green cards.

I think this is a good idea in general. One of the main complained about immigration is some supposed cost to the barely-existing US welfare system. Having a minimum lifetime tax before getting access to that seems like a decent compromise to calm down the xenophobes

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#336

Post by salawat »

peteradio wrote: post #296
chii wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> H1B at big tech is modern slavery that's putting it too far - they are free to leave or quit as they wish. Unlike the true modern slavery of which is migrant workers (like described here https://www.antislavery.org/world-cup-2022-the-reality-for-m... ), where their passports are confiscated, etc. H1B is exploiting the rules for cheap labour. It does benefit the H1B holder - since they would otherwise not have signe…

Suppressing wages is one thing but imagine the pressures to behave unethically where bidded.

This is the major problem in my view. Until your permanent residency slots, and before you actually start integrating with the culture, it is the case that many H1B's are ethically in tune moreso with their mother country than the United States.

The occasional civics lessons done over lunch in my career have been eye opening in more than one way. Interestingly, many H1B's are allergic to unionizing as well. Probably another facet of the demand for more of them.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#337

Post by swalberg »

appplication wrote: post #319
dccoolgai wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or like... if the actual _company_ that claims it "needs that worker from outside the U.S. so so so much" actually took the risk on instead of foisting it on the poor employee (and by extension, the entire labor market). My 2-step process for fixing the H1-B system. 1. H1Bs are _auctioned_ instead of raffled. You really need that H1B? Prove it - pay for it. 2. Sponsoring companies are responsible for cost of living f…

This is practical, but there is some inherently pay-to-play classist issues with handing out green cards to those with money.

There's already a category for that, the EB-5 investor visa.

If we understand the act of giving a green card to mean the US wants that person to join the society for the long term, is "taxes paid" really the best measure of desirability?

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#338

Post by jimmygrapes »

Zetice wrote: post #312
peteradio wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans are free to rule their country as they wish that is basically the premise it's founded on. Deserve means nothing in this context.

Deserve means everything in this context, because I, as an American, am discussing with my fellow Americans how our country works and the principles upon which we ought to rule ourselves. Those principles are heavily founded in “deserve”. You are watching some infinitesimally small part of that “ruling” process.

Citizenship is meant to limit external actors influencing the vote of who should represent the people of any given area, and being qualified to represent the people by virtue of a sustained commitment and longevity.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#339

Post by donnie12345 »

onetimeusename wrote: post #329
greatpostman wrote: post #13

Generally not supposed to say this out loud, but being the only American on an all H1B team at these companies can be absolutely brutal. Very alienating, always missing out on back channel communications, no sympathy for missteps

My ex gf is here on H1B and so is all her friend group. I feel bad for her situation, it adds a layer of stress but the way they treat the visa is disrespectful to Americans I think. For example, they are generally of the mindset that Americans are stupider and lazier than them which is why they are here. So they will vent their frustrations on Americans by calling us stupid and lazy and entitled because we have citi…

Lol really?

This a big news to me.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#340

Post by lapcat »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #252
lapcat wrote: post #216

This is a direct link to the article: https://www.leefang.com/p/big-tech-resumed-hiring-foreign-wo... The moneycontrol.com link is merely a summary of that.

The original article is even more misleading. I would expect that it was written by someone with zero knowledge of US immigration policies.

I'm just going by the HN guidelines: "Please submit the original source. If a post reports on something found on another site, submit the latter." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
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