Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs • Hacker News Board

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#231

Post by Zetice » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 1:48 PM UTC

dudul wrote: post #217

Zetice wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

People immigrated there because it was needed at the time. What was good centuries ago may not apply today. Yes permanent residents in the US/Iceland/Australia/Spain/whatever should get priority over temporary visa holders in their respective country. This is the whole point of countries.

No, people immigrated here because it was better here, and it was better here because people immigrated.

And no, permanent residents do not have anything about them that is inherently more deserving of anything. That is in no way what a country is for.

A country provides social services to people in exchange for some control, so as to keep order. If you give control, you get services.

Land borders are not an important aspect of a country’s decision of who to provide services to, who that country can provide order to is.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#232

Post by vinay_ys » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 1:48 PM UTC

iepathos wrote: post #67

intelVISA wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You don't understand what slavery is. Slaves don't get paid and it isn't voluntary. H1B are paid and is entirely voluntary. The reason foreigners accept and compete for the positions is because the pay is better than the positions they can get locally. Calling that slavery is ignorant and an insult to anyone alive or historically who has suffered actual slave labor.

Back in the days of slaves, someone would have argued how slavery isn't that bad because there were more worse things in their past and how slavery was an improvement in the lives of those slaves compared to what they would have had in their home country. Your argument reeks of the same moral flaw.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#233

Post by ericmay » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 1:48 PM UTC

moritz wrote: post #173

burnerburnson wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a manager of a team that's mostly H1Bs at Google. It's mostly fine but a few of them just refuse improve their English, and it's frustrating spending hours every day just being an English teacher to an engineer who writes at a 5th grade level. The problem with hiring too many H1Bs is they speak to each other in Chinese and thus take forever to become proficient at communicating with the rest of the company. Also,…

I’m not American and don’t live in America (I presume by “America” you mean the United States?), but shouldn’t it be “… refuse to improve their English”?

It should be “refuse to…” yea. I’m going to hazard a guess that the author you’re responding to missed the to there in their comment. It’s a common thing. Sometimes for example when I’m replying on mobile I might miss a word or autocorrect from my web browser may do something strange and I don’t catch it.

> I presume by “America” you mean the United States?

Yea that’s almost for sure what they mean. Typically people from the United States of America are called Americans and people across the world refer to those people as “Americans” and they/we also refer to ourselves and our country as “America” as a shortened form. I’m a little surprised you weren’t aware of this given your clearly written English but yep that’s what that means!

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#234

Post by eddtests » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 1:50 PM UTC

gloryjulio wrote: post #54

gabereiser wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Double, triple, even quadruple

Any guides on how to make multi millions per year as consultant?

That's the realm of extreme skill, luck, and timing. There is no way there's a cookie-cutter solution to that and if people say there is I suggest they're no different to Tai Lopez etc...

Two solutions I have seen (thanks to the news):

1. Be being a world-class academic on a hot ML topic consulting to a huge tech company at a strategic level

2. Be the prime minister of a G8 country and consult for global investment firms

If you're a software engineer or even engineering leader at a startup/SME you're not going to find these contracts unless you're in the 0.001% of the market for a niche skill that's desperately in need.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#235

Post by enlightenedfool » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 1:50 PM UTC

imwillofficial wrote: post #175

mdorazio wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's how it works in practice: You create a job posting that's buried on your careers page and has so many very specific requirements for an underleveled role (because it's custom-made for the H1B person you want to hire) that no local worker can possibly meet them all. Then you half-heartedly phone screen a few people to check the box before throwing up your hands and saying, "We tried and weren't able to find any…

Or just getting rid of H1B all together and nurture that talent in-country.

Why would companies take the time, money, effort to nurture when talent is readily available as H1bs? The mostly American shareholders don’t approve that.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#236

Post by resolutebat » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 1:50 PM UTC

mrtksn wrote: post #229

burnerburnson wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a manager of a team that's mostly H1Bs at Google. It's mostly fine but a few of them just refuse improve their English, and it's frustrating spending hours every day just being an English teacher to an engineer who writes at a 5th grade level. The problem with hiring too many H1Bs is they speak to each other in Chinese and thus take forever to become proficient at communicating with the rest of the company. Also,…

Interesting, isn't it considered impolite to speak in a language that someone in the group doesn't understand? When I was in Germany, Germans even texted their SO in English in case I glance over their phones. Maybe the group I was in was exceptionally welcoming but everywhere in Europe where I lived(EU, non-EU, UK etc.) it was always considered rude to speak a language that others don't understand and everyone alway…

Yes, but many Chinese engineers have such a low level of proficiency that they genuinely struggle to communicate in spoken English. Pronunciation/accent can also be a major barrier to comprehension.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#237

Post by swalberg » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 1:50 PM UTC

afavour wrote: post #56

chii wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> H1B at big tech is modern slavery that's putting it too far - they are free to leave or quit as they wish. Unlike the true modern slavery of which is migrant workers (like described here https://www.antislavery.org/world-cup-2022-the-reality-for-m... ), where their passports are confiscated, etc. H1B is exploiting the rules for cheap labour. It does benefit the H1B holder - since they would otherwise not have signe…

“Modern slavery” is definitely an exaggeration but many are also not quite so free to quit. The H1B is a “dual intent” visa, meaning you can apply for permanent residency while you have it. But you must maintain your H1B the entire time, which can be a decade or more for folks from places like India. You can transfer an H1B but it’s not easy and if you quit your job you must line another one up in 60 days or say good…

> you can apply for permanent residency while you have it.

Just to further complicate it, for many people _your employer_ has to apply for permanent residency on your behalf which is another 2 year ordeal and fair bit of money (that's just to get the green card priority date, not to mention waiting for the green card itself which varies by country). And that further indentures you since if you leave during that period you effectively abandon that application.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#238

Post by dragonwriter » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 1:51 PM UTC

vinay_ys wrote: post #232

iepathos wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't understand what slavery is. Slaves don't get paid and it isn't voluntary. H1B are paid and is entirely voluntary. The reason foreigners accept and compete for the positions is because the pay is better than the positions they can get locally. Calling that slavery is ignorant and an insult to anyone alive or historically who has suffered actual slave labor.

Back in the days of slaves, someone would have argued how slavery isn't that bad because there were more worse things in their past and how slavery was an improvement in the lives of those slaves compared to what they would have had in their home country. Your argument reeks of the same moral flaw.

> Back in the days of slaves, someone would have argued how slavery isn't that bad because there were more worse things in their past and how slavery was an improvement in the lives of those slaves compared to what they would have had in their home country.

Its not that uncommon an argument to encounter today on the Right.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#239

Post by confidantlake » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 1:51 PM UTC

burnerburnson wrote: post #103

greatpostman wrote: post #13

Generally not supposed to say this out loud, but being the only American on an all H1B team at these companies can be absolutely brutal. Very alienating, always missing out on back channel communications, no sympathy for missteps

I'm a manager of a team that's mostly H1Bs at Google. It's mostly fine but a few of them just refuse improve their English, and it's frustrating spending hours every day just being an English teacher to an engineer who writes at a 5th grade level. The problem with hiring too many H1Bs is they speak to each other in Chinese and thus take forever to become proficient at communicating with the rest of the company. Also,…

I don't know about google but at my fortune 500 company they are technically paid the same but clearly paid less in reality. A bunch of them are at lower levels then they should be based on experience and skills.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#240

Post by Zetice » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 1:52 PM UTC

orochimaaru wrote: post #228

Zetice wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are Americans more deserving of jobs then other people?

Because a nation should put its citizens interests first. This isn’t a hard concept. There’s plenty of companies though that don’t do h1b. Major telcos, defense contractors (those are us citizen only), a lot of small hedge funds, etc.

No, a nation should not put just its citizens first, that’s nationalistic garbage. Firstly it presumes a nation decides who its citizens are through some fair system, and secondly it presumes its citizens are somehow inherently more deserving than its non citizens.

Anyone who agrees to the social contract gets to benefit from the nation. That’s what a country actually is.