It's like cash. It's not the problem, scammers are.
Sounds to me some big banks and fintech got their lobbyists to stick it to Zelle.
Consumers defrauded on Zelle are left high and dry by the banks that created it [pdf]
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Re: Consumers defrauded on Zelle are left high and dry by the banks that created it [pdf]
#82It's like cash. It's not the problem, scammers are. Sounds to me some big banks and fintech got their lobbyists to stick it to Zelle.
Zelle is the big banks
Re: Consumers defrauded on Zelle are left high and dry by the banks that created it [pdf]
#83Oh really! Surprise Surprise! A new cash app, defrauds customers. I have not lost a cent because I do not trust any of them, except for Money Orders.
Re: Consumers defrauded on Zelle are left high and dry by the banks that created it [pdf]
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
This happened to a friend of mine. She had listed a mattress with bed for sale on FB marketplace. Someone reached out and bought it and said would arrange pick up. They sent a screenshot of them Zelleing her. After a few minutes they reached out and told her they changed their mind because they cant pick it up and if they can Zelle them back. She did thinking it just hadn't hit her account yet. $1800 down the drain.
So she sent $1800 to someone without first seeing a pending transaction of any kind for a $1800 credit? Some things have to be learned the hard way if that's all it takes.
No, the scammer stole someone’s credentials and the bank clawed back the payment. The bank can always reverse it at any point in the future. The consumer never, ever can.
Re: Consumers defrauded on Zelle are left high and dry by the banks that created it [pdf]
#85In 2009 I met some Israeli developers in Atlanta who were trying to get meetings with some of the banks in the area (there are a number of corporate bank offices here for big banks) to hawk their direct payment system, which was exactly what Zelle is. I contracted with them and got them some meetings, I was basically a rent-a-laowai for them to get meetings here. I never heard what happened to them after that, and wh…
It’s not a unique product and I worked for some bank startups in the early 2000s trying trying the thing.
And really this was the original idea for PayPal, dwolla, and lots of other digital cash payment systems.
Re: Consumers defrauded on Zelle are left high and dry by the banks that created it [pdf]
#86I agree that at some point people need to take some responsibility for being scammed. However, it seems that Zelle is engineered in the perfect way to help scammers. It is as though a committee of engineers and consultants sat together and said "How do we create the perfect vehicle for as many different types of scams as possible?" - Maybe! instant settlement - No standardized audit trail - No way to know who's reall…
- No standardized audit trail
- No way to know who's really on the other side
Re: Consumers defrauded on Zelle are left high and dry by the banks that created it [pdf]
#87What do the scams actually look like?
This happened to a friend of mine. She had listed a mattress with bed for sale on FB marketplace. Someone reached out and bought it and said would arrange pick up. They sent a screenshot of them Zelleing her. After a few minutes they reached out and told her they changed their mind because they cant pick it up and if they can Zelle them back. She did thinking it just hadn't hit her account yet. $1800 down the drain.
This is Zelle's fault? A screenshot? Either you have low friction financial transactions or you bubble wrap the whole thing so people don't do incredibly stupid shit.
Re: Consumers defrauded on Zelle are left high and dry by the banks that created it [pdf]
#88For anyone extolling the virtues of credit cards as the ultimate payer-friendly solution, my "exhibit A" is a vendor who charged my card and then put a freeze on actually shipping the product. Then they tried calling me while my phone didn't have a signal. Then they sent me an email saying their "verification" department couldn't reach me and to let them know when they can call. I replied telling them when they could…
Now and then someone "hacks" my pathetic Javascript shopping cart to buy software for $1 instead of the usual price. I just send them an email with a balance due for the rest of the purchase price. Never hear from them again. I accepted credit cards for many years until I was subjected to repeated "carding" attacks. The credit card processor blamed me for them, and was unable to tell me how to avoid such attacks. My…
I, too, throw my baby out with my bathwater.
Re: Consumers defrauded on Zelle are left high and dry by the banks that created it [pdf]
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
> NEVER send any emails or SMS related to Zelle, and the app should say every time it starts "Zelle NEVER sends you an email or text message. Do everything from inside the app." is Zelle ever its own app? I only use Zelle from my banks' apps, and banks use TFA with text messages all the time, including from the website, calls to support, and the bank app running on the phone. I'm not saying that TFA texts to your pho…
Zelle does have their own app, and I have used it before. The app is for folks using a domestic United States bank that isn't connected to Zelle. During registration, the Zelle app prompts you for your bank name, your mobile phone number, and email address. Those are all checked: If your bank isn't listed as a Zelle-supporting bank, and your phone number & email aren't already linked in the Zelle system, then you can…
Minor nit - those aren't Venmo's rails, but Visa/Mastercard's. Other vendors offer similar instant payout features.
Re: Consumers defrauded on Zelle are left high and dry by the banks that created it [pdf]
#90It's not just fraud you need to worry about. Here's a horror story for you. A few years back I was moving to a city for graduate school and needed to rent an apartment. A friend of mine toured the place and when we decided to rent the landlord asked if we could send him the security deposit using Zelle. I sent the deposit using his contact information, but he never received it. I spent three weeks being passed back a…
> I also found that Zelle is basically just a front-end for the existing ACH Direct Deposit system. [...] > > tl;dr do not ever use Zelle. I can't figure out how to do ACH transfers to friends with my credit union, and I've been told Zelle is the solution for that. I guess I should stick to Venmo?
It's not a front end for ACH. If it were ultimately ACH based, reversals would be no big deal. It'd be business as usual.