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LibreWolf – Custom version of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom

librewolf.net

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Re: LibreWolf – Custom version of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom

#111

Post by taway1237 »

Firmwarrior wrote: post #62
maccard wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mozilla ships Firefox with telemetry (aka spyware, given that it operates silently and automatically without consent) enabled by default. So opt out of it. Calling it spyware is inflammatory, and disregards the reality of the world that we exist in. > It's just marketing to make line go up and to the right while Mozilla staff can keep collecting paychecks for being "the good guys". There's a lot of money involved.…

It's hidden. It's spying. It's software. It's spyware.

As a reverse engineer who works with malware most of the time (and my current project is related to a spyware family) I'm annoyed by your incorrect and inflammatory use of the word "spyware". Words have meanings for a reason, and using the strongest possible word to describe something you don't like doesn't make your point stronger.

Re: LibreWolf – Custom version of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom

#112

Post by anon____ »

rascul wrote: post #88
brirec wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I misreading the financial statement linked by your sibling comment? It looks like they spent in the $250,000 or so range on all salaries combined in a given year, but maybe I’m misreading it.

It's in thousands so it should be $250,000,000? I don't know that I'm reading it right either.

You are reading it right.

Re: LibreWolf – Custom version of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom

#113

Post by NegativeK »

whatscooking wrote: post #104
itvision wrote: post #26

The biggest problem with all these "privacy" oriented web browsers is that you have to trust their creators explicitly and I just cannot. Most often the developers are some random anonymous Joes without CVs or anything proving they have reputation at stake. Thank you, but no thank you. Even if the official Firefox "leaks" something it's well controlled and well known. What do these browsers do? I've no idea.

I hate this “I can’t trust open source” mentality. Open source contributors automatically getting labeled as malware is insane. I’d rather trust an individual contributor over large corporate interests any day of the week. And don’t act like the same thing can’t happen to corporate software

?

I use open source for the vast majority of things I do, but I'm still very selective about what I run. It's not an open source thing -- I also don't go out and grab random closed source executables from people I've never heard of.

People are distrusting unknown software from unknown devs, not open source software.

Re: LibreWolf – Custom version of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom

#114

Post by JohnFen »

mangecoeur wrote: post #27
sneak wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla ships Firefox with telemetry (aka spyware, given that it operates silently and automatically without consent) enabled by default. They also ship closed source DRM in the browser which infringes on software freedoms. Mozilla doesn't actually care that much about privacy or freedom, it's just marketing to make line go up and to the right while Mozilla staff can keep collecting paychecks for being "the good guys…

Telemetry and spyware are not the same thing (irrespective of whatever Firefox is doing). There is a big difference between tracking to try to understand how users are using a software or getting information on bugs and crashes, and tracking with the aim of monetizing personal data. I'm personally not crazy about telemetry implying information is uploaded to a software provider, but from experience I know that trying…

> Telemetry and spyware are not the same thing

Telemetry is spyware if it's done without the active informed consent of the user. What the collected data is actually used for isn't relevant. Consent is the relevant factor.

Re: LibreWolf – Custom version of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom

#115

Post by NegativeK »

Firmwarrior wrote: post #58
mangecoeur wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telemetry and spyware are not the same thing (irrespective of whatever Firefox is doing). There is a big difference between tracking to try to understand how users are using a software or getting information on bugs and crashes, and tracking with the aim of monetizing personal data. I'm personally not crazy about telemetry implying information is uploaded to a software provider, but from experience I know that trying…

Firefox doesn't get to wear the white hat if they're doing a bunch of shady stuff and saying it's for my own good. By your logic, realistically, Google invading my privacy isn't a particularly big deal since they know the value of the data they're harvesting and will guard it. And third party data brokers are actually just making my web experience more tailored and relevant, so I should let them have their way with m…

There's an obvious difference between diagnostic data and data that's used to push ads to me.

People might still object to diagnostic data and Firefox's handling of it, but it's disingenuous to state that they're the same.

Re: LibreWolf – Custom version of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom

#116

Post by _chu1 »

MrAlex94 wrote: post #13

Disclaimer: I develop Waterfox. I think it’s worth noting that Librewolf provides unsigned binaries and at least on Windows, you need to trust a third party service to provide automatic updates.

Is Waterfox Classic gone for good?

Re: LibreWolf – Custom version of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom

#117

Post by ksala_ »

wintermutestwin wrote: post #89
itvision wrote: post #26

The biggest problem with all these "privacy" oriented web browsers is that you have to trust their creators explicitly and I just cannot. Most often the developers are some random anonymous Joes without CVs or anything proving they have reputation at stake. Thank you, but no thank you. Even if the official Firefox "leaks" something it's well controlled and well known. What do these browsers do? I've no idea.

>you have to trust their creators explicitly Yes, and that same issue stands for extensions that are essential for making the browser usable. Who uses Firefox without uBlock? I won't use a browser that lacks a feature rich vertical tabs solution and that requires me to use sidebery with Firefox. That essentially forces me to trust a host of extension creators that I know nothing about. Yes, source can be reviewed, bu…

If you limit yourself to the recommended ones they're supposed to be reviewed by a human and subject to some amount of guidelines - https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/recommended-extensions-... and https://extensionworkshop.com/documentation/develop/build-a-...

Personally I do try to limit the amount of them I run, stick with recommended and take at least a glance at the source from time to time, but it would not defend against version updates or good efforts to obfuscate bad code. I do feel at least somewhat confident that for recommended extensions with substantial usage the internet would surface funny business quite quickly.

But yes, I would love for some independent third party to have some review program! Unfortunately it's not clear how it would be funded.

Re: LibreWolf – Custom version of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom

#118

Post by krono »

mozvalentin wrote: post #55
gabereiser wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tracking is tracking, no matter what outcomes you derive from it.

You can actually see all of the telemetry data Firefox is sending by going to about:telemetry in your browser. You can also see all of the probes it could be collecting here: https://probes.telemetry.mozilla.org/ Keep in mind that the telemetry that is captured in Firefox goes through a thorough review process, so that it respects user privacy: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Data_Collection

This statement is false.

Even with all telemetry disabled (including the option "Allow Firefox to send technical and interaction data to Mozilla") and without anything showing on that page, the browser still sends out interaction data by means of so called "pings", URL parameters, etc.

Re: LibreWolf – Custom version of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom

#119

Post by qup »

uconnectlol wrote: post #74
itvision wrote: post #26

The biggest problem with all these "privacy" oriented web browsers is that you have to trust their creators explicitly and I just cannot. Most often the developers are some random anonymous Joes without CVs or anything proving they have reputation at stake. Thank you, but no thank you. Even if the official Firefox "leaks" something it's well controlled and well known. What do these browsers do? I've no idea.

and we wouldn't need any trust if banks just used a real protocol that we could implement in 5 minutes, instead of a thing made for rendering magazines in real time. > but the poor non programmer user wouldn't be able to do this we are on a programmer forum.

Yeah, and we're still aware that the rest of the world exists and has to also use web browsers.

Re: LibreWolf – Custom version of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom

#120

Post by finite_depth »

ss48 wrote: post #41
itvision wrote: post #26

The biggest problem with all these "privacy" oriented web browsers is that you have to trust their creators explicitly and I just cannot. Most often the developers are some random anonymous Joes without CVs or anything proving they have reputation at stake. Thank you, but no thank you. Even if the official Firefox "leaks" something it's well controlled and well known. What do these browsers do? I've no idea.

Honestly, I find that in many cases I would trust an anonymous random Joe more than a company because they can be more mission driven and limited in their ambition than a growth driven tech company. Firefox keeps trying to push advertising while keeping it private, trying to get people to subscribe to a VPN subscription. Google actively undermines adblocking extensions with Manifest v3 and Web Integrity API. Edge tri…

> Honestly, I find that in many cases I would trust an anonymous random Joe more than a company because they can be more mission driven and limited in their ambition than a growth driven tech company.

If it is a random Joe and not, say, a malicious effort of a major government posing as one. That's the problem.

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