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Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

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Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#101

Post by ryukafalz »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #92
lolinder wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you live in a place that regularly reaches 100 degrees in the summer? No amount of shade or water is going to be enough to persuade me to go outside at 5pm, much less commute home on a bike.

Or commute to work - getting to work drenched in sweat or soaked in rain isn’t a reasonable thing to expect people to do. Most offices don’t have showers or reasonable places to change clothes.

The Netherlands is a famously rainy country and manages quite high levels of cycling mode share.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#102

Post by ryukafalz »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #97
ThinkBeat wrote: post #82

I live in Norway now (ex US) (BTW: One of the world's biggest producers of oil and natural gas (fossile fuels)) It is a country with winters filled with slippery ice at least in the south, and lots of steep hills up and down up and down. The ER stats for broken hip bones and other injuries during the winter is high. The ice is a much bigger factor than cold or snow when evaluating walking or biking It is possible to…

I cycle like 1,000 miles a year, in UK, and last winter broke a few bones. Not sure I am doing that again. I feel cycling advocates get some strange tunnel vision, we can have other mobility solutions. Perhaps one that is more stable on ice. Current EU law is stupid - if it has pedals, it’s a bicycle even with 4 wheels, but a small scooter is an illegal motorised vehicle.

> I feel cycling advocates get some strange tunnel vision, we can have other mobility solutions.

In my case it's because we already have decently good public transit in my area, but next to no cycle infrastructure. So I advocate mostly for the latter.

That doesn't mean I don't think public transport is important too, they're a great combination - I cycle to the train station near me all the time! Public transport tends to have a last-mile problem and cycling is a great way around it. The two are additive.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#103

Post by skeeter2020 »

steelframe wrote: post #71
sbierwagen wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a bicycle commuter for 20 years. According to Strava I've logged 800 miles so far this year. And when snow is on the ground, I drive.

I used to do it that way. But then I got narrow studded tires. They cut through the snow down to the surface and then grip it if it's icy. Admittedly not the cheapest type of tire around. Last I checked a good brand name was going for $175 new. I found a "used once" set on eBay for a lot less.

if you want narrow studded bike tires they're nowhere close to that much. A quick search found decent pizza cutters starting as low as $25/each. If you want studded fat bike tires you're gonna spend $400 for a set.

The narrow ones are fine for a little wet snow but suck once you get more than a few inches of dry powder or downtown slop. You're way better to go for flotation then.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#104

Post by skeeter2020 »

alwayslikethis wrote: post #16
taude wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's weird though, is that we're on average living a lot longer than we were 50 years ago. So how is that slowly killing us? [1] [1] https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/life... I'm guessing it trends similarly for other countries. EDIT: Not that I'm against walking and cycling (I don't own a car). But to say that this is causing less lifespan...

Traffic accidents are among the top causes of death in the US. Many diseases are also caused by a sedentary lifestyle (not walking enough), among other things caused by the car.

don't disagree but a big part of this is we've gotten so good a preventing a lot of the other causes of death these have increased to fill the gap. Also, I'm definitely not sedentary, but absolutely hate walking. They're not orthogonal.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#105

Post by skeeter2020 »

nologic01 wrote: post #6

There is a very clear flow chart * Walk Else * Take Bicycle Else * Take Electric Bike or Fixed Track Public Transport Else * Use Electric Automobile or Bus Else * Use Fossil Fuel Automobile or Airplane Subsidies, incentives etc must align with this flowchart. EV is seen as a savior for economies and urban structures that are not viable to start with

As someone who loves to bike and hates to walk why would you prioritize one over the other? You're entire prescriptive approach is a big problem in making any improvement. How about "try to do anything other than drive by yourself in your car?"

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#106

Post by skeeter2020 »

vinni2 wrote: post #19
melling wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway doesn’t decide to phase out oil, consumers do. The world needs 100 million barrels a day. We are at peak coal too. https://www.iea.org/news/global-coal-demand-set-to-remain-at...

That’s not exactly true. When the Russian gas stopped the adoption of renewables accelerated in Germany and other places in Europe. If oil is phased out people will adapt. Most of Norwegian oil customers are in Europe so switching to renewable energy and phasing out oil is doable. Instead Norway wants to explore oil in the arctic.

>> If oil is phased out people will adapt.

Sure, just hope you don't freeze to death while "adapting"

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#107

Post by jojobas »

vinni2 wrote: post #19
melling wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway doesn’t decide to phase out oil, consumers do. The world needs 100 million barrels a day. We are at peak coal too. https://www.iea.org/news/global-coal-demand-set-to-remain-at...

That’s not exactly true. When the Russian gas stopped the adoption of renewables accelerated in Germany and other places in Europe. If oil is phased out people will adapt. Most of Norwegian oil customers are in Europe so switching to renewable energy and phasing out oil is doable. Instead Norway wants to explore oil in the arctic.

That did little to offset the decades of German madness of transitioning to Russian gas in the first place, and closing nuclear power plants while building more coal ones.

Phasing out oil in Europe will make people "adapt" by outsourcing the remaining industrial production to Asia. The conflict (not necessarily military) with China imminent, and weaning off Chinese imports will be way more difficult than Russian ones, especially when you're deindustrialized.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#108

Post by devoutsalsa »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #94
devoutsalsa wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In heavily biked areas, is Finland mostly flat?

We have e-bikes, S-pedelecs, e-scooters and electric motorbikes. Hills are not a relevant issue technologically

Riding on a flat surface isn't such a big deal. Riding up & down a hill street covered in snow and/or ice is non-trivial.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#109

Post by Moldoteck »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #105
nologic01 wrote: post #6

There is a very clear flow chart * Walk Else * Take Bicycle Else * Take Electric Bike or Fixed Track Public Transport Else * Use Electric Automobile or Bus Else * Use Fossil Fuel Automobile or Airplane Subsidies, incentives etc must align with this flowchart. EV is seen as a savior for economies and urban structures that are not viable to start with

As someone who loves to bike and hates to walk why would you prioritize one over the other? You're entire prescriptive approach is a big problem in making any improvement. How about "try to do anything other than drive by yourself in your car?"

It's the principle for building environment. At some point everyone is Pedestrian, so env should be built to make walking as safe and nice as possible, including getting most of the things you may need with a short walk and safety. Next is bike for things that are a little more far away or for last mile trips. Next is public transport for long distance, next is cars for ppl that really need them or a willing to pay more. It's a priority piramide for creating good human centtic city design

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#110

Post by willio58 »

lolinder wrote: post #83
willio58 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a myth that people can't ride bikes in cities that experience exceptionally hot or cold weather. They can, and do, it's just that the cities need to fund infrastructure to make those things more comfortable and enticing. For heat specifically, you need trees covering sidewalks and bike paths. Also the materials you build sidewalks and structures with contribute to this, and if you can then adding some evaporativ…

Do you live in a place that regularly reaches 100 degrees in the summer? No amount of shade or water is going to be enough to persuade me to go outside at 5pm, much less commute home on a bike.

Yep, I live in Nevada. I also live in a part of my city that has a lot of trees and water, and it makes it bearable in the summer to ride or walk around
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