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Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

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Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's amazing how bike advocates view the world as a homogenous place. Where I live it's 90 degrees or higher, and humid in the summer, and can be sub-zero in the winter. It's also quite hilly -- flat and level riding is the exception. I'm not riding a bike any substantial distance in those conditions, regardless of paths or lanes.

welcome to (southern) Germany, I recommend you a bike with electric assist and you will be fine

The real game changer is a helmet with a full face visor. Also I am warmer on a scooter than a bike due to the fact that I'm not moving my legs "pumping" air in and out of my clothes.

I found that on an electric scooter with a full helmet I was totally warm at high speed into icy wind coming off the sea. Warmer than say just standing outside for a few minutes with a hat and scarf but my face not covered.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#82
I live in Norway now (ex US) (BTW: One of the world's biggest producers of oil and natural gas (fossile fuels))

It is a country with winters filled with slippery ice at least in the south, and lots of steep hills up and down up and down. The ER stats for broken hip bones and other injuries during the winter is high.

The ice is a much bigger factor than cold or snow when evaluating walking or biking

It is possible to bike all year round. But very few people do it. and I think for good reason. I did it for 2 years and I am never doing it again. Yes you can get studded bike tires and they help but no.

Politicians here keep talking about Norway as if we are Spain. (With enough global warming from the fossile fuels produced perhaps?) Let us be good for the environment and walk and bike everywhere. Like they do in Amsterdam.

Meanwhile public transit in Oslo is good, and well used. But the buses and trains are stuffed like sardins in a can. during rush hours.

I wish they would stop spending major money on constructing bike paths and allocating more and more of the road to bikes, and instead invest heavily in improving and expanding public transit. Since it is useful for nearly all of the population all year around.

Since Norway is investing heavily in EV busses, the trains are electric as are the trams, increasing the number of busses, allowing people to breathe in rush hour would not have any noticeable impact on emissions.

I would rather see many more lanes for public transit only than the same space being built for bikes only.

With a population of 700.000, the capital Oslo, seems at most 3.000 brave bikers during the winter. (less than 0.5%) This is easy to calculate since the city have signs that measure the number of bikers that pass them 24h a day.

There is a Finish town that the newspapers like to cover in how people ride their bikes there all year around. Joensuu.

""Meet the bike-loving Finnish city that keeps pedaling even in the snow""

It is blessed by being flat, by having a youngish population, and a consistently below freezing winter. (Which means much less of an ice problem).

Even there only 7% ride their bikes in the winter.

Since Oslo will remain outstandingly non flat, and be covered in ice during good parts of the winter, I dont see the advantage of spending on bike infrastructure over public transit.

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2021/01/22/meet-the-bike-... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2020/feb/0...

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's amazing how bike advocates view the world as a homogenous place. Where I live it's 90 degrees or higher, and humid in the summer, and can be sub-zero in the winter. It's also quite hilly -- flat and level riding is the exception. I'm not riding a bike any substantial distance in those conditions, regardless of paths or lanes.

It's a myth that people can't ride bikes in cities that experience exceptionally hot or cold weather. They can, and do, it's just that the cities need to fund infrastructure to make those things more comfortable and enticing. For heat specifically, you need trees covering sidewalks and bike paths. Also the materials you build sidewalks and structures with contribute to this, and if you can then adding some evaporativ…

Do you live in a place that regularly reaches 100 degrees in the summer? No amount of shade or water is going to be enough to persuade me to go outside at 5pm, much less commute home on a bike.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#84

I live in Norway now (ex US) (BTW: One of the world's biggest producers of oil and natural gas (fossile fuels)) It is a country with winters filled with slippery ice at least in the south, and lots of steep hills up and down up and down. The ER stats for broken hip bones and other injuries during the winter is high. The ice is a much bigger factor than cold or snow when evaluating walking or biking It is possible to…

I biked to work every day for 4 years in Whitehorse, Yukon. (~61 deg North). It was -40 for a couple of months a year, plenty of ice.

Whitehorse actually has the highest rate of bike commuters of anywhere in Canada, though that is likely just because everyone there is nuts about the outdoors.

Studded tires were great, and I loved riding. It was more fun in the winter than summer.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#85

Fantastic news! EVs already have escape velocity in Norway to replace ICE cars, and incentivizing more walking and cycling not only promotes more efficient modes of short distance travel, but makes the population healthier. Over reliance on cars kills us slowly via lifestyle degradation.

At least in the article, I didn't see anything mentioned about incentivizing cycling or walking (or infrastructure investments to support them). They're simply reducing subsidies to EVs, which will only be slightly less heavily subsidized compared to ICE vehicles. Anyone from Norway know what they're doing for walking and cycling that isn't in the article?

> Anyone from Norway know what they're doing for walking and cycling that isn't in the article?

It's not "they", it's winter. If you don't move, you're frozen. And soon dead. So no EV - have to walk. Or cycle. Or public transport.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#86
post #4

This is hypocrisy Norwegian economy is heavily driven by oil industry. Instead of planning to phase out oil they just makes these ineffective policies. People are going to buy big electric cars even with VAT.

It's worth reading about their strategy for the $1.5 trillion (!) in assets they hold:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Nor...

Observation and exclusion of companies: https://www.nbim.no/en/responsible-investment/exclusion-of-c...

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#87
post #4

This is hypocrisy Norwegian economy is heavily driven by oil industry. Instead of planning to phase out oil they just makes these ineffective policies. People are going to buy big electric cars even with VAT.

> People are going to buy big electric cars even with VAT.

Then, there's no need to continue offering an incentive - because behavior was successfully changed.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#88
post #11

Fantastic news! EVs already have escape velocity in Norway to replace ICE cars, and incentivizing more walking and cycling not only promotes more efficient modes of short distance travel, but makes the population healthier. Over reliance on cars kills us slowly via lifestyle degradation.

Outside of Oslo the infrastructure is built with car reliance deincentivizing cars and incentivizing walking and bikes won’t make much difference. Instead they should be making public transport more attractive. Walking and biking is not exactly ideal in harsh weather.

> Instead they should be making public transport more attractive

Indeed, and the article itself agrees with you - the headline is deceptive. Without any specifics, the actual quote from the transport minister is about improving intermodal transport, saying "We must make it more attractive to travel by public transport, cycle, and walk."

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#89

There is a very clear flow chart * Walk Else * Take Bicycle Else * Take Electric Bike or Fixed Track Public Transport Else * Use Electric Automobile or Bus Else * Use Fossil Fuel Automobile or Airplane Subsidies, incentives etc must align with this flowchart. EV is seen as a savior for economies and urban structures that are not viable to start with

I'd imagine there should be a few more bullet points somehow between automobile and airplane: - Carpool - Bus - Train

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