Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

gizmodo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

311–320 of 660 posts

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#311

Post by catchnear4321 »

ranger_danger wrote: post #167
catchnear4321 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people are tired, stretched thin, even in the most powerful nations. information access has become so ubiquitous that it has become more challenging to filter than to find. for many people, there are far more pressing concerns to address than if nissan knows how the back seat was used last night. they would need the time and space to slow down and consider the information, and likely have means to do something, for i…

None of that matters when the info is either routinely sold to others with more time and motivation on their hands, or simply leaked to the public whether on purpose or not.

how are they contradictory?

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#312

Post by sfaxon »

charles_f wrote: post #221

Note that this is all based on this source material. https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categor... I haven't dug too much into the methodology, but it seems like it's done based on privacy policies rather than actually looking into the car telemetry traffic. It's also written in a very caaual and sensationalist "omagad" tone that doesn't serve well the seriousness of the topic or findings

I own a VW ID.4. For reasons I wanted to reverse engineer some of the API. After authenticating to the account tied to my car, the landing page (https://www.vw.com/en/owners.html) makes calls to a lot of analytics trackers. I'll just list what pi-hole defaults block:

analytics.tiktok.com

sp.analytics.yahoo.com

googletagmanger.com

universal.iperceptions.com

cdn4.userzoom.com

snap.licdn.com

secure-ds.serving-sys.com

bat.bing.com

ct.pinterest.com

adherent.com

And a few others. I would guess the phone app (which has access to the car location) has a similar list of trackers. I hope to get some time to MITM the app to be able to know for sure.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#313

Post by hoot »

brandonagr2 wrote: post #269
tristor wrote: post #132

Of all the horrible things go on with privacy these days, this is the one I hate the most. I’m a “car guy”, but not the sort that obsesses over old cars (although I do love 60s and 80s cars). I like new tech, I like the advances in engineering we’ve made in new vehicles, I like EVs even. Nonetheless I’ve been in the market for a new car for months and haven’t bought because it’s hard to find any cars that meet my req…

If you want best in class safety tech and no dealer markups, you can just order a Tesla online

I’m not an Elon hater but Tesla is the worst offender on Mozillas privacy study.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#314

Post by ghaff »

sergiosgc wrote: post #262
tristor wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate them so much. Otherwise great cars are completely ruined by touchscreens. What was wrong with tactile knobs you could operate one handed without looking? You’re driving for fuck’s sake. It’s why things like the GR Corolla are nearly miraculous in 2023, it even comes stick shift only.

As an European, where we drive mostly stick, it's funny to observe the newfound US love for stick shifts. It's funny because it happened almost exactly when automatics became good! Good dual clutch gearboxes are amazing, but even "classic" ones like BMW's ZF6 or ZF8 are really close. ZF8 is so good BMW uses it in the M3, instead of a dual clutch. With these options, I'd never go back to stick shift. This after having…

I assume a lot of it is a retro thing like film and vinyl.

I donated my 20 year old Honda Del Sol two-seater stick shortly before the pandemic. It had a lot of miles on it and, with no commute, I just wasn't getting the use out of it to make it worth keeping. It was fun but there's no way I'd buy a stick today even if I were to have a "fun" car.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#315

Post by cpursley »

neogodless wrote: post #308
cpursley wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The touchscreens are really a dealbreaker on new cars. They’re not just prone to quick obsolescence, they’re dangerous.

We just bought a 2023 Mazda CX-5 Select for $29k. No touchscreens in the whole car! And no dealer markup - we paid slightly under MSRP. But... it is certainly satellite connected (you can manage locks, windows, etc. from your phone, as well as remote start). Wish it was included in this privacy investigation. I'd love to know more about what they do with what they know about our car and how we use it.

I think Mazda is one of the exceptions. Plus, they have great driving dynamics in general.

Only thing stopping me from getting a new Miata is all the dangerous bro-dozers on the road.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#316

Post by mindslight »

seanw444 wrote: post #276
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the US is pretty nearly lawless when it comes to privacy issues. Half the protections we have today are "it's legally required in the EU but low cost enough to just do globally".

Considering the government uses the private sector as a cheat code to evade our 4th Amendment, this crap needs to be addressed.

The real "cheat code" is that much of the de facto government is the private sector. Imagining some hard dividing line between "government" and "private sector" is a fallacious red herring.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#317

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

pard68 wrote: post #128
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you’re all set then and the rest of us are screwed?

That's your choice. You can buy new, convienent, modern cars that spy on you and will be dead in ten years. Or you can buy old, reliable cars that lack most modern amenities but can be repaired forever with a metal lathe and a welder.

It's my choice not to learn how to use a metal lathe and a welder, or find someone with those skills to do it for me? How is that supposed to scale to millions of people who want the same privacy?

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#318

Post by throwaway1777 »

thorin wrote: post #212
cpursley wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The touchscreens are really a dealbreaker on new cars. They’re not just prone to quick obsolescence, they’re dangerous.

Is this a US thing? I recently bought a reasonably high end Skoda (which I think would be made in the same factory as VW, SEAT etc). It has a big touch screen in the centre console, but that's really only used for the radio / media / phone calls etc. This is all non essential stuff and so I can deal with it being on a screen. Everything relating to driving is an old skool analogue control. A couple of things I don't…

It’s the same in the US, you just correctly identified that it’s not an issue for the vast majority of people outside of the data collection concerns (which most people also don’t care about)

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#319

Post by tschwimmer »

seattle_spring wrote: post #270
spacemadness wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These markups are insane, and I wonder if anyone actually gets anywhere near paying them. I don’t really see the point since for those markups you can just get a nicer car. Unless car collectors really are that out of touch and flush with cash.

Unfortunately lots of people are happy to pay the markups. Some subreddits, including /r/rav4prime , will ban you for speaking negatively about dealer markups or those who pay them. Here's their hilariously condescendingly worded rule 4: > No demonstrations of economic illiteracy. No negativity regarding markups. You are encouraged to post about current prices and markups and your dealership experiences, but please D…

I’m pretty sure most of the car subreddits are managed by dealership employees who benefit from markups via increased commissions. The fact that they make reference to complaining about price markups as economic illiteracy increases my confidence in this hypothesis.

I’m tempted to go make a post about rent seeking, deadweight loss and price collusion in oligopolistic conditions but somehow I feel my economic literacy will be found wanting.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#320

Post by forgetfreeman »

neogodless wrote: post #308
cpursley wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The touchscreens are really a dealbreaker on new cars. They’re not just prone to quick obsolescence, they’re dangerous.

We just bought a 2023 Mazda CX-5 Select for $29k. No touchscreens in the whole car! And no dealer markup - we paid slightly under MSRP. But... it is certainly satellite connected (you can manage locks, windows, etc. from your phone, as well as remote start). Wish it was included in this privacy investigation. I'd love to know more about what they do with what they know about our car and how we use it.

I wonder how the car would respond to having the sat antenna run through with a 1/2 inch drill bit? Would that solve the problem?
Post reply on HN