Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla • Hacker News Board

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#101

Post by toastal » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 1:53 PM UTC

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #82

WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually wanted to go with an insurer that installs a black box. My dealer, however, doesn't do those (and their standard package is pretty good, so with a new car it was stupid to go with someone else).

My insurance company has a phone app that collects the same info - speed, deaccelation (gyroscopes), etc. the app is optional but qualifies you for a discount after 3 months of app history, if your driving pattern meets their standards. They told me they do not impose rate increases based on the app’s reporting, only discounts. I did not install it but the point is: You don’t need a car device anymore.

You at least bought a burner device to do this, right?

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#102

Post by AndrewKemendo » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 1:53 PM UTC

vannucci wrote: post #78

The more I read about these things, the more I think I'll be driving my 23 year old Toyota 4Runner until the end of my life

I've never bought a new car and don't have any plans to soon

My 2001 Tundra is a spy-free, comfortable and versatile life/work vehicle that works as well in the city as it does hauling logs and steel on my property. I have three school age kids and prefer my truck to a Van (I've owned one in the past too) any-day.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#103

Post by CamelCaseName » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 1:53 PM UTC

gspencley wrote: post #90

mikece wrote: post #76

Car dealerships are notoriously horrible about privacy as well. The last time I bought a car at a dealership they wanted me to sign a release that allowed them to use photos and videos of me as part of their television and online advertisement. They were stunned when I refused and threatened to nix the whole deal and I challenged them to do exactly that before (of course) a manager was summoned and eventually I was t…

I bought a used vehicle at a dealership back in 2018. A couple of years later my daughter was looking for her first car and so we went to the same place. We were just browsing, and were met by a different sales rep. He had to excuse himself to tend to a different customer and during that time we left to go check out other places. While we were at a different dealership I get an unexpected phone call. It was the sales…

"Recognized you"

I wonder where they put the facial detection camera

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#104

Post by TedDoesntTalk » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 1:53 PM UTC

pard68 wrote: post #71

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that won’t be an option in a few . How many 2015 cars will be on the road and for sale in 2035?

I also have an '54 Chevy, a '62 CJ, a '69 wagon, a '68 Suburban, and a '84 Ford. I have a pretty good track record of keeping old things running well. Eventually my new cars (01 and two 03s) will cease to be repairable, but I have invested time and money in a very well maintained fleet of older vehicles, it's one of my only practical hobbies.

I guess you’re all set then and the rest of us are screwed?

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#105

Post by throw3747874747 » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 1:54 PM UTC

justinclift wrote: post #91

throw3747874747 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pretty sure that is (or soon will be) illegal in EU. Car needs to be able to call emergency, if accident is detected.

"Oops, how did that happen..." ;)

It is EURO5 or EURO6 emmision norm. It also handles firmware updates, reaction to Volkswagen cheating. Car needs to be online, check for latest firmware and all sort of nasty DRM.

There is also a black box, that records position and speed. It may call emergency if it detects crash. If DRM is violated, car may refuse to start, or only drive like 50 kms.

I don't have a source, but anyone should be able to find relevant articles.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#106

Post by chongli » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 1:54 PM UTC

throw3747874747 wrote: post #80

nhance wrote: post #2

I've got a 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee and I've been searching for where the sim card is for the built in cellular modem so I can rip it out. It astounds me that there aren't more people interested in cutting off the constant telemetry and to be honest it wouldn't surprise me if the car refuses to operate correctly when I do figure out where it's at and pull it.

I am pretty sure that is (or soon will be) illegal in EU. Car needs to be able to call emergency, if accident is detected.

Will it also be illegal to drive an old car that doesn't have this telemetry?

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#107

Post by LeSaucy » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 1:55 PM UTC

vannucci wrote: post #78

The more I read about these things, the more I think I'll be driving my 23 year old Toyota 4Runner until the end of my life

With the next Gen Toyota platforms all coming to market, it’s the end of an era for sure. I will be driving my 2nd Gen tundra into the ground!

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#108

Post by TedDoesntTalk » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 1:55 PM UTC

bob1029 wrote: post #62

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that won’t be an option in a few . How many 2015 cars will be on the road and for sale in 2035?

It's always going to be an option if you can afford it.

“Always” is a long time. Cars from the 1920s are on the road today, but do you want that to be your daily driver? Do you care about safety or the safety of your passengers?

This kind of backwards thinking does not scale to everyone who wants privacy in their car. And it does not scale into the long-term future of driving.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#109

Post by joezydeco » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 1:55 PM UTC

b112 wrote: post #98

joezydeco wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd probably have more success finding the external antenna and clipping the leads at the sharkfin.

Just make sure you do something, like use a resistor to ground the antenna lead, because I did that, and would still get connectivity at times. EG if the cell tower was very close. Was fine after I used a resistor to turn that power into mild heat.

I wonder if one could build a metal cap, shape and color matched to the sharkfin, that goes over the antenna and couples to the roof of the car. Would that be enough to make a small Faraday cage over the antenna? Would leakage though the mounting hole still be enough to let a signal through?

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#110

Post by throw1234651234 » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 1:56 PM UTC

quietpain wrote: post #26

hashtag-til wrote: post #3

I think it will be a good differentiation factor in a few years, that a brand comes up with an offline car, i.e. a car that you just refuel/charge and drive - no telemetry/connected features involved. It may be a niche thing in future, but certainly something that would be appealing to me as a consumer.

I think the insurance co will be the main lever in this story. If you have cameras & telemetry: standard insurance, open source offline car: pay premium.

Dashcams have worked just fine for a while, and they don't have to be connected to the internet to pull the data later SELECTIVELY, WHEN NEEDED. Yes, there is a chance it's completely destroyed, but it's fairly minor.