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The Ones We Sent Away

theatlantic.com

41–50 of 76 posts

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "what if the obesity epidemic has nothing to do with calories in vs calories out, and actually there is some toxin which the body has to sequester in subcutaneous fat and that's why everyone's getting obese" Everyone loses weight on a caloric deficit. And "doubly labeled water" experiments show that people vastly underestimate how many calories they actually eat each day. See this often cited paper: https://www.nej…

I think this means that obese people have something wrong where they are prevented from accurately gauging portion sizes. I’m not talking like they’re stupid. I’m talking like something is wrong with their bodies and the inner satiety mechanism is broken. Counting calories sounds insane to me as a thin person. I’m not counting the calories of a fucking croissant I had for breakfast today, I just know I really preferr…

> I’m not counting the calories of a fucking croissant I had for breakfast today

A croissant is very calorific

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#42
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely. I like to play a game sometimes... more or less based on the idea that bloodletting and rectal feeding and wound probing were medical "best practices" of the past and now seem so obviously ludicrous to us now. So I like to look at something that I think is obvious, some "best practice of our time", and wonder how it might in 100 or 150 years suddenly seem totally ludicrous to posterity with the revelation…

> "what if the obesity epidemic has nothing to do with calories in vs calories out, and actually there is some toxin which the body has to sequester in subcutaneous fat and that's why everyone's getting obese" Everyone loses weight on a caloric deficit. And "doubly labeled water" experiments show that people vastly underestimate how many calories they actually eat each day. See this often cited paper: https://www.nej…

Just to be clear, I am trained as a physicist and I am not criticizing the thermodynamics as incorrect but rather insufficient.

It is also incorrect, which is to say that there is only a vague relationship between the kilocalories reported on the side of the box and the actual marginal energy absorbed into your body. This is due to multiple factors. The most basic is measurement methodology: “count up the carbs in grams and multiply by 4 because this one ancient paper claimed that was the right fudge factor to average all carbohydrates with”; then there is the reality that the carbs described as “dietary fiber” on the label should never have been counted in the first place; add to this that the fudge factor for protein is also 4 kcal/gr even though it is known that proteins require twice the energy input from your body to be metabolized. If you're a physicist you're hoping for very clean simple measurements, “we put this into a calorimeter and burned it, or maybe we let some bacteria rot the thing in a sealed jar and monitored the oxygen in there” or something. The nutrition facts are nothing of the sort! (Related: the scale llliiieeesss, it lies, liar liar pants on fire how it lies.)

However the bigger problem is that it is insufficient. For instance if you are worried about health outcomes, like diabetes risks, it turns out that calories in minus calories out doesn't predict those well. Both Omega-3 fats and trans fats are given the same fudge factor of 9 kcal/gr, but one is significantly less healthy than the other.

It's not even terribly helpful to understand the full context of weight gain. Did you know that before our species grew up in Africa, our ape ancestors actually grew up in Europe? During this process they lost the ability to make an enzyme called uricase, which helps most other mammals eliminate a waste product called uric acid from the body. The loss of this enzyme is usually chalked up to, “those apes needed to put on a lot of weight really fast at harvest time before the winter came up”—google «uricase evolution» to learn more. So we actually have a hardwired tendency which most mammals do not have, to consume fructose and not consciously register those kilocalories as satiety signal, and instead we pack on those kilocalories as fat because of our artificially high uric acid levels. Wild stuff.

The physics curriculum does touch on this but in a strange place: it's the courses where we teach kids to analyze circuits made with nonlinear components like op-amps and transistors. So there's the thermodynamic fact of calories in, calories out... but it also comes with a sales pitch which is trying to provide a simple answer that would work for a linear system, “just perturb this input a little bit and you will get the corresponding output.” But nonlinear systems don't work that way!

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are only 3 cities in the entire US with generally available driverless taxis. All three of which are in sunny areas with generally no real inclement weather. At this point, driverless taxis are more science fiction than reality for a supermajority of Americans, let alone the rest of the world. Meanwhile up in Canada, I'm still struggling with the fact that google has completely mislabeled two of the streets tha…

from people who work in those companies: those cars could be in every city and they’d run great (except snow. snow is tough, rain not so much) but why aren’t driverless cars there? It’s been decided you want a perfect track record, as close to flawless - to appease regulation bodies. regulation is what kills and regulation is the biggest fear. The cars and tech are always getting better, the ‘slowness’ is deliberate,…

> It’s been decided you want a perfect track record, as close to flawless - to appease regulation bodies.

This is why I feel China will be the first to have unlimited self-driving. They would be able to treat self-driving cars the way that we treat trains: liability on the person hit by the train, so long as the train was functioning properly.

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#44
post #9

My dad had an Uncle Charles (probably born around 1910) who didn't live with the family. He was what was called a "spastic" -- probably cerebral palsy. The family (out in the bush) couldn't look after him so he was committed to an institution. My dad visited him as a kid. Uncle Charles had never been taught to read or write but he was an excellent chess player and (like his brother, my grandfather) could do complex a…

Ireland had a variant of this where women who got inconveniently pregnant were sent away to forced labour institutions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_Laundries_in_Ireland

If women died from the conditions, they could be buried in unmarked graves:

> In Dublin in 1993, the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity – owners and operators of the laundry in High Park, Drumcondra – had lost money in share dealings on the stock exchange; to cover their losses, they sold part of the land in their convent to a property developer. This led to the discovery of 133 unmarked graves. The Sisters arranged to have the remains cremated and reburied in a mass grave at Glasnevin Cemetery, splitting the cost of the reburial with the developer who had bought the land. It later transpired that there were 22 more corpses than the sisters had applied for permission to exhume, and death certificates existed for only 75 of the original 133, despite it being a criminal offence to fail to register a death that occurs on one's premises.[3] In all, 155 corpses were exhumed, and cremated

There was also unmarked graves for babies: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60464447

(see also institutions in both Australia, Canada and possibly New Zealand for forcibly removing children from certain ethnic minorties, known as "residential schools")

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mental health care is still in the dark ages and the medicine we have are mostly crappy. I just got off SSRIs - the most prescribed mental health medication. It messes with your whole body since serotonin has hundreds of different uses in the body. And we don’t know why it works! It’s basically bloodletting or eating the village healers herbs

Indeed, I've seen multiple people end up with their lives completely and utterly detailed, as well as wrecking their family and fiends (yours truly included) and a result of such prescriptions. I don't understand how this goes totally ignored by the public at large.

SSRIs and other anti-depression medication are a lottery. There often isn't a good rationale for picking one over another. Many people get great benefits; some people have to go through trying several drugs to get benefits; a few get dramatically bad side effects.

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you experienced any of the current driverless taxi services? Personally i see the current limits to rollout as ones of hardware cost, but this is steadily declining.

There are only 3 cities in the entire US with generally available driverless taxis. All three of which are in sunny areas with generally no real inclement weather. At this point, driverless taxis are more science fiction than reality for a supermajority of Americans, let alone the rest of the world. Meanwhile up in Canada, I'm still struggling with the fact that google has completely mislabeled two of the streets tha…

> All three of which are in sunny areas with generally no real inclement weather.

This isn't an accurate description of SF, but more importantly, the sun doesn't come out at night.

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#47
post #9

My dad had an Uncle Charles (probably born around 1910) who didn't live with the family. He was what was called a "spastic" -- probably cerebral palsy. The family (out in the bush) couldn't look after him so he was committed to an institution. My dad visited him as a kid. Uncle Charles had never been taught to read or write but he was an excellent chess player and (like his brother, my grandfather) could do complex a…

I know people to this day that didn't leave home and are supported by the state to care for parents who can't look after themselves, because they feel guilty about abandoning them, and don't have any skills. When their parents die they will most likely be unable to find work or integrate with society.

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#48
post #16

>the most commonly cited rationale for institutionalization in those years was >that neurotypical siblings would suffer—from shame, from attention starvation— >if their disabled siblings were kept at home. There is alternative perspective of "Young Carers" or "きょうだい児" in Japanese. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_carer I don't think it was a easy choice then, or easy choice now. Seems to be a relevant subreddit. h…

Here we have an interesting pattern where the childhood is actually a brittle thing:

If you have a good childhood you grow up into an well integrated adult with no issues. However, if you are having a bad childhood, not only you have the process disrupted for you but it also cascades into your family, in this case siblings. That's because the childhood is so social, and it is often the bad kind.

Many of non-neurotypical (or even physically disabled) children could grow up into integrated adults, it would just take somewhat more time. However, they often don't have access to that time as they are isolated and sidelined by the social structure.

Adult don't care about each other or meddle in each other's affairs, but children would. That's often deleterious.

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#49
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "what if the obesity epidemic has nothing to do with calories in vs calories out, and actually there is some toxin which the body has to sequester in subcutaneous fat and that's why everyone's getting obese" Everyone loses weight on a caloric deficit. And "doubly labeled water" experiments show that people vastly underestimate how many calories they actually eat each day. See this often cited paper: https://www.nej…

For some real life examples see the "Secret Eaters" TV series. When people claim that they gain weight despite not eating much they are lying or delusional. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Eaters?wprov=sfla1 I do understand that it can be challenging for many people to reduce their energy intake.

Thanks for the recommendation, I'm watching the first episode on YouTube: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bYJrC3RTtgQ

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#50
post #8

What a story. I got to the end a complete, sobbing wreck. To send your own children away to abominable, putrid institutions at the advice of doctors is something I can't even imagine. And it really wasn't that long ago.

Definitely. I like to play a game sometimes... more or less based on the idea that bloodletting and rectal feeding and wound probing were medical "best practices" of the past and now seem so obviously ludicrous to us now. So I like to look at something that I think is obvious, some "best practice of our time", and wonder how it might in 100 or 150 years suddenly seem totally ludicrous to posterity with the revelation…

Cancer treatment is progressing quite rapidly.

I like to think in 40 years or so that people will look back on radiation and chemo like bloodletting.

Chemo and radiation - at least 10-ish years ago - were pretty close to straight up killing yourself...

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