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The Ones We Sent Away

theatlantic.com

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Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#21

Post by fortran77 »

crdrost wrote: post #8
maximilianburke wrote: post #7

What a story. I got to the end a complete, sobbing wreck. To send your own children away to abominable, putrid institutions at the advice of doctors is something I can't even imagine. And it really wasn't that long ago.

Definitely. I like to play a game sometimes... more or less based on the idea that bloodletting and rectal feeding and wound probing were medical "best practices" of the past and now seem so obviously ludicrous to us now. So I like to look at something that I think is obvious, some "best practice of our time", and wonder how it might in 100 or 150 years suddenly seem totally ludicrous to posterity with the revelation…

> "what if the obesity epidemic has nothing to do with calories in vs calories out, and actually there is some toxin which the body has to sequester in subcutaneous fat and that's why everyone's getting obese"

Everyone loses weight on a caloric deficit. And "doubly labeled water" experiments show that people vastly underestimate how many calories they actually eat each day.

See this often cited paper: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199212313272701

In a test of people who believed themselves to be diet resistant, every single subject lied about how much they ate when asked to self report.

> The failure of some obese subjects to lose weight while eating a diet they report as low in calories is due to an energy intake substantially higher than reported and an overestimation of physical activity, not to an abnormality in thermogenesis.

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#22

Post by [deleted] »

fortran77 wrote: post #21
crdrost wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely. I like to play a game sometimes... more or less based on the idea that bloodletting and rectal feeding and wound probing were medical "best practices" of the past and now seem so obviously ludicrous to us now. So I like to look at something that I think is obvious, some "best practice of our time", and wonder how it might in 100 or 150 years suddenly seem totally ludicrous to posterity with the revelation…

> "what if the obesity epidemic has nothing to do with calories in vs calories out, and actually there is some toxin which the body has to sequester in subcutaneous fat and that's why everyone's getting obese" Everyone loses weight on a caloric deficit. And "doubly labeled water" experiments show that people vastly underestimate how many calories they actually eat each day. See this often cited paper: https://www.nej…

[deleted]

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#23

Post by doublespanner »

saghm wrote: post #17
crdrost wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely. I like to play a game sometimes... more or less based on the idea that bloodletting and rectal feeding and wound probing were medical "best practices" of the past and now seem so obviously ludicrous to us now. So I like to look at something that I think is obvious, some "best practice of our time", and wonder how it might in 100 or 150 years suddenly seem totally ludicrous to posterity with the revelation…

> A major theoretical discovery of K="computers can't do XYZ" would be another such thing for all of us who in the modern world chase these fads about computers reinventing finance or art or the modern economy. You'd have people in the year 2100 saying "can you believe only 75 years ago, everyone would just believe that computers were magically going to fix X and then they wouldn't and everyone would suddenly believe…

Have you experienced any of the current driverless taxi services?

Personally i see the current limits to rollout as ones of hardware cost, but this is steadily declining.

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#24

Post by froh »

maximilianburke wrote: post #7

What a story. I got to the end a complete, sobbing wreck. To send your own children away to abominable, putrid institutions at the advice of doctors is something I can't even imagine. And it really wasn't that long ago.

it's horrible,yes.

in a similar vein sending your own children away to abominable, putrid institutions at the advice of pastors for being LGBT+ is something still a thing in some.circles.

it's beyond me how such doctors and pastors did and do get away with that inhuman cruel "advice"

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#25

Post by resolutebat »

fortran77 wrote: post #21
crdrost wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely. I like to play a game sometimes... more or less based on the idea that bloodletting and rectal feeding and wound probing were medical "best practices" of the past and now seem so obviously ludicrous to us now. So I like to look at something that I think is obvious, some "best practice of our time", and wonder how it might in 100 or 150 years suddenly seem totally ludicrous to posterity with the revelation…

> "what if the obesity epidemic has nothing to do with calories in vs calories out, and actually there is some toxin which the body has to sequester in subcutaneous fat and that's why everyone's getting obese" Everyone loses weight on a caloric deficit. And "doubly labeled water" experiments show that people vastly underestimate how many calories they actually eat each day. See this often cited paper: https://www.nej…

The actual Slime Mold Time Mold analysis is more nuanced than the previous characterization. Yes, you'll lose weight if you run a caloric deficit; the SMTM argument is that something is messing with what they call the "lipostat", which regulates how much your body thinks you should be eating. So when your body is yelling at you that you're starving (even though you aren't), it's very hard not to overeat, because hunger is right there at the bottom of the Maslow pyramid and it takes inordinate willpower to consistently ignore it.

http://achemicalhunger.com/

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#26

Post by dghlsakjg »

doublespanner wrote: post #23
saghm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A major theoretical discovery of K="computers can't do XYZ" would be another such thing for all of us who in the modern world chase these fads about computers reinventing finance or art or the modern economy. You'd have people in the year 2100 saying "can you believe only 75 years ago, everyone would just believe that computers were magically going to fix X and then they wouldn't and everyone would suddenly believe…

Have you experienced any of the current driverless taxi services? Personally i see the current limits to rollout as ones of hardware cost, but this is steadily declining.

There are only 3 cities in the entire US with generally available driverless taxis. All three of which are in sunny areas with generally no real inclement weather.

At this point, driverless taxis are more science fiction than reality for a supermajority of Americans, let alone the rest of the world.

Meanwhile up in Canada, I'm still struggling with the fact that google has completely mislabeled two of the streets that touch my corner lot, and invented a through street that has never existed on my neighbors property. All of this is information that I have submitted a correction to, as well as being available through our excellent public GIS system.

The existence of these sorts of ambiguities in the map, and in the real world means that driverless taxis will be doing exactly what the poor pizza guy does periodically and wandering down my dead end road thinking they are on a completely different street. Luckily the pizza guy has the ability to knock on my door and get directions, while a driverless car will just... turn on its flashers and block the road as far as I can tell.

When driverless cars can operate in Salt Lake City, a city that is incredibly tech friendly, low regulation, car centric, but with genuinely bad weather I will be impressed. In the meantime I would settle for more frequent bus service.

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#27

Post by nradov »

fortran77 wrote: post #21
crdrost wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely. I like to play a game sometimes... more or less based on the idea that bloodletting and rectal feeding and wound probing were medical "best practices" of the past and now seem so obviously ludicrous to us now. So I like to look at something that I think is obvious, some "best practice of our time", and wonder how it might in 100 or 150 years suddenly seem totally ludicrous to posterity with the revelation…

> "what if the obesity epidemic has nothing to do with calories in vs calories out, and actually there is some toxin which the body has to sequester in subcutaneous fat and that's why everyone's getting obese" Everyone loses weight on a caloric deficit. And "doubly labeled water" experiments show that people vastly underestimate how many calories they actually eat each day. See this often cited paper: https://www.nej…

For some real life examples see the "Secret Eaters" TV series. When people claim that they gain weight despite not eating much they are lying or delusional.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Eaters?wprov=sfla1

I do understand that it can be challenging for many people to reduce their energy intake.

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#28

Post by ta988 »

doublespanner wrote: post #23
saghm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A major theoretical discovery of K="computers can't do XYZ" would be another such thing for all of us who in the modern world chase these fads about computers reinventing finance or art or the modern economy. You'd have people in the year 2100 saying "can you believe only 75 years ago, everyone would just believe that computers were magically going to fix X and then they wouldn't and everyone would suddenly believe…

Have you experienced any of the current driverless taxi services? Personally i see the current limits to rollout as ones of hardware cost, but this is steadily declining.

Yes they may not be ready for this decade, but the arguments against remind me of those that said nobody would ever have a computer in their home. Even some stupid connected lightbulb have more computing power than some of the machines at that time...

Don't trust anybody that believe they can predict the future.

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#29

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

fortran77 wrote: post #21
crdrost wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely. I like to play a game sometimes... more or less based on the idea that bloodletting and rectal feeding and wound probing were medical "best practices" of the past and now seem so obviously ludicrous to us now. So I like to look at something that I think is obvious, some "best practice of our time", and wonder how it might in 100 or 150 years suddenly seem totally ludicrous to posterity with the revelation…

> "what if the obesity epidemic has nothing to do with calories in vs calories out, and actually there is some toxin which the body has to sequester in subcutaneous fat and that's why everyone's getting obese" Everyone loses weight on a caloric deficit. And "doubly labeled water" experiments show that people vastly underestimate how many calories they actually eat each day. See this often cited paper: https://www.nej…

I think this means that obese people have something wrong where they are prevented from accurately gauging portion sizes. I’m not talking like they’re stupid. I’m talking like something is wrong with their bodies and the inner satiety mechanism is broken. Counting calories sounds insane to me as a thin person. I’m not counting the calories of a fucking croissant I had for breakfast today, I just know I really preferred a lighter lunch! And I don’t gain noticeable weight without giving a crap about it, just eating what my body says fulfills me keeps me at healthy weight.

In my opinion the fact ozempic, which has nothing to do with calorie consumption or calorie counting but instead is a hormone working on satiety, tells me somethings wrong with the hormones of fat people. And I wouldn’t begrudge a fat person they’re overeating any more than I would begrudge a hyperthyroidic person their thinness!

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#30

Post by paulpauper »

crdrost wrote: post #8
maximilianburke wrote: post #7

What a story. I got to the end a complete, sobbing wreck. To send your own children away to abominable, putrid institutions at the advice of doctors is something I can't even imagine. And it really wasn't that long ago.

Definitely. I like to play a game sometimes... more or less based on the idea that bloodletting and rectal feeding and wound probing were medical "best practices" of the past and now seem so obviously ludicrous to us now. So I like to look at something that I think is obvious, some "best practice of our time", and wonder how it might in 100 or 150 years suddenly seem totally ludicrous to posterity with the revelation…

To go off on tangent, if slime mold theory were true it would be possible to cure obesity by just switching to healthy, non-processed foods. i tried this in my own weight loss journey, and way easier said than done. CICO means you can get fat with anything. Thank god for new weight loss drugs . It took a century to get to this point and a century to develop these drugs...go figure.
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