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On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

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Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#11

Post by f1refly »

testcaseuser wrote: post #7
yieldcrv wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its the behavior of someone that doesn't want to go to prison in the US. There are literally only a handful of countries that are viable to avoiding that. Them being geopolitical opponents is exactly what they are countries that are viable to avoiding that. You are choosing to put the cart before the horse, that he went to geopolitical opponents to give secrets, and not that he was going to a handful of countries tha…

[flagged]

You mean the most sensitive government secrets that are about warrantless total surveillance of everyone on earth? The proof that the US government has lost all control over their spying apparatus? Where would be a sensitive place to take them instead in your opinion?

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#12

Post by InvaderFizz »

testcaseuser wrote: post #9
Tao3300 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> His behavior isn't what a whistleblower does. You need to explain this. Why should a whistleblower have to go to prison? Don't deflect with whataboutisms.

[flagged]

This is a rather strange take. In 2013, Hong Kong was a very different place than today, with none of the China stigma.

Additionally, you neglect to mention that is was the US actions in cancelling his passport that stranded Snowden in the Moscow airport that he was transiting through on the way to Ecuador.

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#13

Post by testcaseuser »

harry8 wrote: post #10
testcaseuser wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

He gave that data to american citizens in Hong Kong and retained no copy. Obama's people trapped him in transit in russia on his way to south america so that they could claim "russia! russia!" They openly bragged about this. It worked on both levels. He's stuck and people amazingly still claim he's in with the russians. It always surprises me how many people still come out with this totally discredited line that he g…

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/nsa-breached-c...

How is this whistleblowing? He also participated in Putin's call in propaganda show, I don't believe for a second that he's said anything that upsets Putin or the FSB particularly if mild criticism is useful for them in maintaining the fiction that he is not under the control of the Russian security services.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spie...

That leak about NSA breaching Chinese servers was in the same time period that Chinese security services executed accused CIA informants with a gunshot to the head in front of their coworkers.

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#15

Post by testcaseuser »

InvaderFizz wrote: post #12
testcaseuser wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is a rather strange take. In 2013, Hong Kong was a very different place than today, with none of the China stigma. Additionally, you neglect to mention that is was the US actions in cancelling his passport that stranded Snowden in the Moscow airport that he was transiting through on the way to Ecuador.

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/world/asia/china-said-to-...

" The Chinese government made the final decision to allow Edward J. Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor, to leave Hong Kong on Sunday, a move that Beijing believed resolved a tough diplomatic problem even as it reaped a publicity windfall from Mr. Snowden’s disclosures, according to people familiar with the situation."

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#18

Post by dhx »

tptacek wrote: post #2

I still haven't gotten my head around the valorization of Bill Binney, who does not appear to have been an opponent of dragnet surveillance, as he's so often portrayed, but rather of inefficient and poorly managed dragnet surveillance. ThinThread, the system he designed and left NSA over when they didn't pursue it, still left it up to NSA to determine which data to make available, and still presumed NSA would collect…

See [1] (from 1:14:43). The difference was Binney's system (ThinThread) being designed to quickly filter out most data and retain only a relatively small amount of targeted data. The result being the target had to be specified before the data could be collected. The other system (Trailblazer) was designed to capture and retain as much data as possible, and allow targeting to occur against this enormous buffer after the data had been captured.

[1] https://media.ccc.de/v/29c3-5338-en-enemies_of_the_state_h26...

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#19

Post by fallingknife »

testcaseuser wrote: post #13
harry8 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He gave that data to american citizens in Hong Kong and retained no copy. Obama's people trapped him in transit in russia on his way to south america so that they could claim "russia! russia!" They openly bragged about this. It worked on both levels. He's stuck and people amazingly still claim he's in with the russians. It always surprises me how many people still come out with this totally discredited line that he g…

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/nsa-breached-c... How is this whistleblowing? He also participated in Putin's call in propaganda show, I don't believe for a second that he's said anything that upsets Putin or the FSB particularly if mild criticism is useful for them in maintaining the fiction that he is not under the control of the Russian security services. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia…

Your objections here are like criticizing a homeowner for shooting a burglar with an unregistered gun. Yes, it's illegal, but nobody cares because there is a much more severe crime going on, and it's strange that you would focus on that.

Re: On the 10th anniversary of the Snowden revelations

#20

Post by AequitasOmnibus »

10 years on, Snowden remains arguably the most important whistleblower in the US after Daniel Ellsberg. The fact that the government pursued Snowden and effectively drove him into exile in an unfriendly country shows how serious the revelations were, and exposes the dangers of an unchecked government.

I don't think it's hyperbole to say that Snowden single-handedly changed public perception against the NSA and the domestic branch of the war on terror. And yet, what shocks me to this day is how feckless the Congressional and Administrative responses were to public outcry. The government bet on the scandal blowing over, and for the most part it was right. Snowden's whistleblowing should have led to widespread changes in the law and in agency policies - and in a healthy democratic society that would have been the result. Instead, he'll never be able to return to the US because DOJ has made him tantamount to Public Enemy No. 1.

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