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‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

theguardian.com

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Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#51

Post by scrozart »

mlinhares wrote: post #17

I feel bad for the people that now want to have had children but didn't but as a father of two, if you didn't directly plan to have kids it might have been better that you didn't, kids take a lot of work, you have to be in the right place to do it. I used to be the person that said "yeah, go have kids" and now I'm "only do it if you're completely sure its what you want" because if you're not it's the children sufferi…

Agreed. I was always on the fence about children, and eventually decided/realized a strong desire to have children is a responsible prerequisite.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#52

Post by _V_ »

tr888 wrote: post #33
10g1k wrote: post #27

Evolution. It's programmed into you, the drive to reproduce. And that's a good thing. You won't understand how important and amazing it is until you have your own kid. NOTHING is more important.

I really hate this attitude. It's a condescending and patronising attitude - that men who don't (or can't) have children are less. Are you really saying that absolutely nothing is more important than reproducing? For everyone, in every situation? I sincerely hope not.

Is it? I don't see anything patronising in there. It is just a statement. I don't think that people who cannot have children are seen as something less. This is just you wanting to be offended.

And yes, in general there is almost nothing more important other than reproduction from the perspective of species. Nothing controversial about that either.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#53

Post by beardedwizard »

basisword wrote: post #13
bell-cot wrote: post #6

Geezer* Perspective... [*If not in the USA, read "Old geezer". Credit: Aachen] Many varieties of "I really regret that I [did|didn't] do X when I was younger" occur in older humans. The stereotype of young men wanting to avoid all the work and commitment of setting down, marrying, and raising children is older than the pyramids. It is obviously not true of all young men, but there's very seldom been a shortage. Sure,…

I feel like most young men have always wanted to extend their youth and avoid the responsibility that family life would bring. However, until recently (with easy access to birth control, abortion, and proper education) this wasn't really possible. You would accidentally have a child and be forced into the lifestyle you were trying to avoid. And most of the time things worked out and you were forced into a situation t…

My experience was that you will never feel "ready" to have kids, you just close your eyes and go for it.

I think it is a good idea to look at finances and relationship health; but beyond that I'm not sure much else matters.

It's almost the same as marriage - and your comment is insightful in that when given the choice humans will almost never choose to change, being "selfish" feels great while you are doing it.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#54

Post by pertymcpert »

bt4u wrote: post #7
corobo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But a single man adopting is considered as pervert Is this evidence or assumption? Not challenging too hard just wondering if you've actually been called or treated like a perv or if it's something you assume will occur

It will absolutely occur. Men who take their kids to the playground by themselves are often confronted (by moms of other kids). At some point things are so obvious that not many people are going to bother finding a peer reviewed study to cite. Maybe they should but they won't.

I've never seen that happen myself, but I have heard of it. My only theory is that it happens in places which are heavily socially/politically conservative and "backwards", where women can't imagine men being an actual real parent.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#55

Post by tr888 »

pertymcpert wrote: post #49
tr888 wrote: post #40

Tough topic. I have some personal experience with it. The thing I struggle most with is the fact that I am often looked down upon (either consciously or subconsciously) by those that have "achieved" parenthood. Having children is an odd status symbol in Western society.

> Having children is an odd status symbol in Western society. Funny, the exact opposite sentiment is mentioned in the article. I'm not sure who is right.

Yes, contrary to the article, the opposite is true (in my experience).

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#56

Post by rambambram »

delineator wrote: post #31

Don't just assume... 1. Create bumble account 2. Filter for Age: > 35, Kids: "Want someday" 3. Swipe right

> Filter for Age: > 35, Kids: "Want someday"

And... you're in bed with a borderliner or covert narcissist before you know it.

Maybe this important step is missing: vetting the prospective mother of your children for some time?

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#57

Post by malfist »

bitsandbooks wrote: post #48

We ought to be converting these people into adoptive or foster parents.

Yeah, I agree. There's an easy solution for regret of not having kids, adoption. It'll be better for you and for the kid(s).

There's no reason this childless person can't change his situation if he's capable of caring for a kid.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#58

Post by MaKey »

bsagdiyev wrote: post #25
corobo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But a single man adopting is considered as pervert Is this evidence or assumption? Not challenging too hard just wondering if you've actually been called or treated like a perv or if it's something you assume will occur

Not sure by bt4u's comment is dead, but I've had that exact situation happen to me. Been accused of trying to steal a child while taking my son to the playground. It is an actual thing and it sucks.

Is this an American thing? I can't imagine that happening in Europe, but maybe I'm just a bit naive.

Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men

#60

Post by ninkendo »

bt4u wrote: post #7
corobo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But a single man adopting is considered as pervert Is this evidence or assumption? Not challenging too hard just wondering if you've actually been called or treated like a perv or if it's something you assume will occur

It will absolutely occur. Men who take their kids to the playground by themselves are often confronted (by moms of other kids). At some point things are so obvious that not many people are going to bother finding a peer reviewed study to cite. Maybe they should but they won't.

Everyone's experience is different, but my understanding (and experience) has always been the opposite: People see a dad taking his kid out to the playground and think "dad of the year" before they think of a pervert, because the bar for what it takes to be a good dad is so low. There are so many uninvolved dads out there that the smallest token gesture like taking your kids to the playground is seen as some huge accomplishment.
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