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Microsoft is killing WordPad in Windows

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351–360 of 367 posts

Re: Microsoft is killing WordPad in Windows

#351
post #267

Implicit in this is a recognition, or at least a claim, that regular windows users don't have any need to inspect or manipulate anything other than a few file types. Plain text or Office formats, PDF, thats it. That might well be true for 99% of people, but it isn't true for me. I'd like to have an editor built into windows that was way lighter than an IDE but could handle things like JSON, XML, and CSV without sweat…

> Implicit in this is a recognition, or at least a claim, that regular windows users don't have any need to inspect or manipulate anything other than a few file types Regular windows users are mostly corporate and there are (management excepted, of course) a lot of file types to be manipulated. (CAD, MS Office, etc)

True, I didnt explain myself very clearly. An editor serves two functions: to open text files, and to act as the Program of Last Resort to open an unfamiliar file type. Id like something beefier than Notepad for the first, but I could live with it: but Id really like something with the power of Notepad++ for the second use case, built into Windows. However its far outside the mainline for windows corporate users since they probably never get sent filetyoes for which they do not already have the right app to open it.

Re: Microsoft is killing WordPad in Windows

#352
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Notepad, WordPad, Paint existed to have a baseline of utility and especially when selling a complete PC setup to customers in the 1990s: At a time when there was no internet! The PC sales guy could demo the customer fancy text-editing with fonts and colours, draw pictures and even print to dot matrix! right in the store. Today people like these minimal OS apps because they are simple, avoid bloat and feature cre…

Win95 was very much sold in the internet age. In fact, its large marketing push was mostly about how easy it was to get online. We are not discussing 1985 here. By the mid to late 90s, internet access was greatly normalized.

Sorta, Win 95 was more on the cusp, predating the first internet boom by a few years, and it was certainty designed for a pre internet world. The marketing push was about how easy it was to get online with MSN. Microsoft leadership famously bet against widespread adoption and growth of the internet and put their bets heavily into MSN with the web as a hedge. The first release of Windows 95 didn’t even come with a browser.

Even so, as a consumer if you had better than 14.4k dialup you were quite lucky. Almost nobody selling computers in those days was tying up a phone line to keep the internet connected for sales demos.

Re: Microsoft is killing WordPad in Windows

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s actually likely to be the opposite. WordPad could be a test application for the RichTextEdit widget.

No. The RichText control was written for the Win95/Exchange email client. Since there was now a RichText control that supported RTF in Windows, the Windows group could write a thin wrapper around the RichText control and replace Microsoft Write with Microsoft WordPad. Support for Microsoft Word file formats came later once the Word group took over responsibility for the RichText control code.

Man… the backstory behind anything in windows is always some insane mishmash of backwards compatibility, repurposed tooling, and other assorted insanity.

Re: Microsoft is killing WordPad in Windows

#355

I'm always sad to see applications go (especially if the recommended alternative is a paid software), but did that thing ever work properly? In the past decade I used Windows only when someone held a gun to my head, but before that I remember that WordPad always messed up all documents I have ever opened: weird page and line breaks, picture and textbox formatting all over the place, and saving a document was a good w…

That was Notepad, which will continue to live on. WordPad was the one that DIDN'T screw everything up.

Re: Microsoft is killing WordPad in Windows

#356
post #46

Which free/open source alfernatives to WordPad for Windows do you recommend then? LibreOffice is huge and slow, MS Office Online requires Internet. How to edit simple RTF/DOC documents offline on Windows without downloading >300MB full LibreOffice suite? Only Abiword comes to my mind.

Notepad++ maybe?

Re: Microsoft is killing WordPad in Windows

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact this comment is getting downvoted speaks volumes to the degree of detachment a lot of the people here have from reality.

It is not detachment from reality. Those of us that are comfortable with compiling some of the programs we use from source don't by any means expect ordinary users to be capable of doing the same. It's an option that works for us and that's fine for many of us, though I personally would prefer if regular users had options as well. It's also a straw man. Compiling from source is just one option (that is particularly r…

"...though I personally would prefer if regular users had options as well."

I must agree with that. Whilst I've written code and compiled it—even Assembler—when it comes to using compiled programs without source, MSO for instance, then I am essentially in the same position as the average user.

I've lost count of the times that I've wished I could change a program to alter a feature or provide one that was missing. Like the average user I'm powerless to change it in any practical sense as it'd be so difficult and timeconsuming (even with source, it could still be very challenging and not worth the effort).

Re: Microsoft is killing WordPad in Windows

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cmd is pretty much deprecated in favor of powershell. And both have the best terminal application available on any OS.

Has Microsoft started to provide Kitty as the default terminal?

No. Something much better. https://github.com/microsoft/terminal

Re: Microsoft is killing WordPad in Windows

#359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest version of LibO, 7.6, loads considerably faster than it used to. I now use it almost exclusively but I've MS Office 2007 still installed as there are times when I still need it. LibO's Write still has many bugs and can become incredibly slow when loading large tables (60 to 100 pages or more). To get myself out of trouble I've exported the .ODF file to .DOC and used MS Word to continue. Nothing irks me mor…

95% of the patches __are__ bugfixing. New features are pretty rare. We're mostly volunteers, so people implement whatever they feel like doing :-) The essence of open-source. Come help out if you can, or sponsor some fixes with one of the LibreOffice consulting companies.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft is killing WordPad in Windows

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest version of LibO, 7.6, loads considerably faster than it used to. I now use it almost exclusively but I've MS Office 2007 still installed as there are times when I still need it. LibO's Write still has many bugs and can become incredibly slow when loading large tables (60 to 100 pages or more). To get myself out of trouble I've exported the .ODF file to .DOC and used MS Word to continue. Nothing irks me mor…

95% of the patches __are__ bugfixing. New features are pretty rare. We're mostly volunteers, so people implement whatever they feel like doing :-) The essence of open-source. Come help out if you can, or sponsor some fixes with one of the LibreOffice consulting companies.

"We're mostly volunteers, so people implement whatever they feel like doing :-) The essence of open-source."

I am extremely appreciative of what open-source developers do. One only has to look at the Linux ecosystem to see how much work they've contributed—and of course there's much more than just that.

What you say is obvious, volunteers are unlikely do work they do not like and I'd certainly not expect them to do so. However, unfortunately, that, in my opinion, is often (but not always) the Achilles's heel of much open-source software.

For example, open-source software often lacks drivers or that good drivers only arrive much later than they do for commercial software. The two mitigating reasons for this are that hardware interfaces etc. are often proprietary and the info is more likely to be released through commercial agreements leaving open-source developers to reverse engineer them which is messy and timeconsuming. But a second factor is even more important, which is that very few developers like writing drivers (I hate doing so and it's years since I've done so—so I'd not expect others to do so for free). A good illusion of this is Linux's old NTFS driver, it was a 'dog' and often corrupted files. Luckily it was fixed recently when the commercial operation Paragon donated a revamp/rewrite of their commercial NTFS code (no doubt out of vested interest, compatibility etc.). That new driver probably doesn't do much for Linux Diehards who interface with ext4, etc. (and it's likely why the old code was never properly developed), but the replacement is a godsend for mixed environments where one is trying to introduce Linux to Windows users.

The problem then is how do we fill the gap between what open-source developers want to do and what users actually need? It's really a vexed problem that remains to be solved if open-source software is to become widely competitive with its commercial counterparts.

For a long time my view has been that we need a middle-ground solution here. For example, large projects such as LibO should be developed under a nonprofit structure that would pay developers for their efforts. The amount developers would receive as compensation would be less than that paid by commercial interests but it'd certainly be more than a token amount. This way, only those who had a true commitment to the project would work on it and payment would also provide the incentive to get the less popular development done, thus projects wouldn't be held up.

Revenue to pay developers would come from the sale of the software, which, say, for LibO could be around $20 - $30 which is only a fraction of what MS charges for MSO. Such a scheme would be criticized on grounds that the source would then have to be closed. That problem is also easily solved if the license agreement required that the source could be only be compiled on condition that the binary was only for one's own personal use—resale of the complied code would be strictly forbidden. Given its nominally low price then by far the vast majority of users would opt to buy the program already compiled.

No doubt, there are many variations on such a scheme and much tweaking would take place before an optimal solution was found. Overall, with such a scheme users would be better off as development would be faster and proceed more smoothly.

I can only stress again that I am in favor of open-source development and I do donate to open-source projects, also if I have to buy software then I only do so from small independent commercial developers. In fact, in recent years, I've bought no code from the Big developers except for Windows which was already installed on a machine, even then that's been strictly limited as most of my machines run Linux.

What prompted my original comment about LibO was my recent bad experience, in fact it was quite horrific. It needs a separate post to provide even a reasonable outline as so many things went wrong. However, in brief, it goes thus: I'd not written long and detailed documents in either MSO or LibO for some time and by that I mean complex documents over 100 pages. LibO has been the default WP for ages but I occasionally use MSO on .doc files created by others to ensure no page format anomolies.

Anyway, recently I had to produce a legal document in which some drafts were in excess of 150 pages and about 100 were in the form of a complex landscape table where some cells were split horizontally and vertically. Not only were there memory leaks, the table would take ages appear, certain operations such as deleting cells that split across pages would lock the program and it could only be killed by the task manager (this, unfortunately, was in Windows), moreover there were multiple instances of Write that had to be killed or it wouldn't reopen. Also, the LanguageTool extension (which I needed) caused Writer to cease up when certain actions were invoked, these were separate to the earlier mentioned problems which were present even if LanguageTool was disabled or not installed.

Somewhere between revision 200 and 550 the file became corrupted but it was not obvious until around rev 550 when I found I couldn't delete some parts of the table. Backups didn't help as they contained the corruption from early on. I then had to cut-and-paste into a new file using plaintext to get rid of the corruption which still wasn't obvious, I thus lost almost all of my complex formatting. These problems cost me several weeks lost work, and to make matters worse I was on a court-imposed deadline that I could not alter.

That's only part of the story. Moreover, I wish to hell LibO had some utility that would find corrupt parts within an .odt file and either correct them and or bring them to my attention. Finding some way to edit—or even examine—a raw indigestible and unintelligible .odt file would be extremely useful.

Also, it would have been good if I could have sent the hundreds of crashes to The Document Foundation but with the sensitivity of the doc and the fact that I couldn't carefully review exactly what was to be sent back I found most annoying. That process for advising crashes isn't fit for purpose.

I really do need an extended blog to fully explain what happened. I note from the changelog of ver 7.6 that one of the table code bugs has been fixed but I've yet to fully verify that, however, it still locks up when I try to correct a spelling error before the speller autocorrects it (it's so damn slow, I can beat it manually).

Similarly, I also note LT has notched a single point release since my original trouble but Writer 7.6 still often fails to engage or interact with the extension, that is LT is active but no grammar or spelling correction takes place. To fix this LibO must be closed down and restarted. I don't know if this is a bug in Writer or LT, either way it's really a damn nuisance.

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