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John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

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101–110 of 123 posts

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#101

"The story of The Spy was really a story of loneliness…" My wife and I just finished watching all of The Americans on Hulu, and this really resonates with me. Somehow, I managed to completely miss the show when it ran from 2013-2018, and was only reminded of its existence after watching and enjoying The Diplomat on Netflix, which also features Keri Russell in a starring role. The Americans is about pair of deep cover…

Tangent: is anyone familiar with a good app to help make a note of what shows you want to watch later? I know Letterboxd sort of does this for movies, but ( last I checked) they ignore the existence of TV. Each platform has its own short implementation of watch lists but they’re all pretty half baked. Is there good 3rd party app?

The Notes app on my Mac and iPhone.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#102
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really curious if there's a name for this phenomenon - being unimpressed by something that was a transformative work at the time because of how much it transformed the genre or medium in its image. I often think of The Matrix being a good example of this, both in how it defined the sort of "the world is a computer" trope, but also just action movies for a while. It's still good, but some of the impressiveness of…

McLuhan, Shirky, Postman, or someone(s) like that, wrote about how original ideas catch on and get endlessly repeated, transmuting the sublime into the banal. It's inevitable. (Just like all accusations of "selling out".) Examples given were the Mona Lisa painting and the yin-yang symbol. IIRC, I read a bunch of this media criticism (alarmism) stuff during dial-up era (post PC, pre Web). Their warning was that digita…

I'm not even thinking about it as a matter of arguments over if the book is good or such, just the interesting phenomenon of different sorts of art. I find some works to be singular in ways where even if they're emulated, the original still has distinct power. Rothko's chapel in Houston is a good example of one where there's a specificity to the original that would be hard to emulate. Same with many great works of architecture.

What I'm thinking of is more like records in athletics. It's hard to appreciate how good a sprinter was in 1950 when their world record time wouldn't even qualify for a college track meet these days. Even if you mentally understand how good they were, and how what got them to that level set the groundwork for what's making people so much faster now, it still looks like someone running fairly slowly.

In some ways, it's a sort of artistic Eternal September.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#103
post #76

I know you got it. But. For anyone who was me. I went so many years not getting the Tinker Tailor reference. I “read” the book years ago after seeing the movie. Yep. It’s a variation of the rhyme we learned as “eenie-meenie miney-mo.” It names jobs, and replaces the schoolyard rhyme’s 4th job with “spy.” That version actually makes sense, while the version I grew up with sounds like the gibberish of which we accuse t…

In the book its relevant also that there is a suspected mole (double agent) and the protagonist knows it is one of 4 people, hence 3 innocuous titles and 1 spy. (After all the rhyme goes on with plenty of other epithets)

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#104
post #15
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for that insight. I read the book for the first time in 2015, well after it had already established itself. I can see the appeal if it had a revelatory view on spycraft at the time.

Yea, I had the good fortune of reading it in a class in school where we went through a number of spy thriller books as a genre exercise. Reading it alongside something like the original Casino Royale by Ian Fleming is a really interesting pairing. In some ways, it's similar to other splits in genre - Neuromancer vs. Snow Crash, Agatha Christie vs. Conan Doyle. Neither is objectively better, but they both set the tone…

Yeah, Fleming knew more the schmoozing at fancy parties like Bond in part because he was working in the US in 1940-1941 trying (and failing) to convince American politicians to enter the war (before it had to in late 1941).

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#105
post #4

Anyone have any recommendations for other classic spy novels like le Carre’s? I’ve read some Greene and Deighton, which were both mentioned in the article, so I suppose I should revisit those, but would be interested in any other works with a similar scene and setting. One of my favorite le Carre tidbits - apparently in the UK and US versions of “Tinker, Tailor,” a character in one version takes a ferry in Hong Kong,…

The Soul of Viktor Tronko by David Quammen (1987) - from the heart of the Cold War. American interrogators try to figure out if a Soviet defector with startling revelations is telling the truth.

Quammen has become well known as a writer on nature and the environment, but he started his career writing spy novels.

His earlier novel The Zolta Configuration (1983) is set in the atom bomb project during WWII. I recall Oppenheimer and his circle are characters.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same with Tom Clancy's. He wrote some pretty genius books with original stories and then it turned into a bunch of series that were nothing than drivel by other authors, like "op center". Even now they stamp his name on games and series he had nothing to do with. I wish that would be illegal, writing a book under the name of someone who had nothing to do with it. Ps the second Bourne book was soooo much better than t…

Tom Clancy was my favorite author, I think authors sign contracts that let some entity use their name and it turns into a brand. The Jack Ryan books after he passed or had other writers weren’t that good. How far can you go after the main character becomes President? I did stumble onto one of those authors, Mark Greaney, who wrote The Gray Man series of novels (the netflix movie is not a good representation at all).…

Yeah they should stop that "branding" rights thing IMO.

The books after he died were pure drivel. Like they were secreted by the authors from some kind of gooey gland in their brain. All kinda the same, like that op center and rainbow six stuff.

The reason I read a few of them was that I didn't realise they were not written by him at the time and I thought they'd get better. But they didn't of course, they only got worse.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#107

"The story of The Spy was really a story of loneliness…" My wife and I just finished watching all of The Americans on Hulu, and this really resonates with me. Somehow, I managed to completely miss the show when it ran from 2013-2018, and was only reminded of its existence after watching and enjoying The Diplomat on Netflix, which also features Keri Russell in a starring role. The Americans is about pair of deep cover…

Tangent: is anyone familiar with a good app to help make a note of what shows you want to watch later? I know Letterboxd sort of does this for movies, but ( last I checked) they ignore the existence of TV. Each platform has its own short implementation of watch lists but they’re all pretty half baked. Is there good 3rd party app?

Trakt.com and then the Kodi integration with Seren

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can recommend "The Spy and the Traitor" on Oleg Gordievsky, in particular the part about the exfiltration reads like a spy novel even though its all factual! Right down to the local ambassador (I think it was) who wanted to stop the operation but it was escalated all the way to Thatcher who was at Balmoral at the time and who was outraged at the idea that the UK wouldn't try and rescue him.

After reading that book I could not shake the feeling that Gordievsky’s defection was “too good to be true.” The intelligence he exfiltrated (with very few exceptions) was hugely beneficial in creating a back-channel between the USSR’s leadership and the West; his “arrest and interrogation” in Moscow was completely inept and even the use of truth drugs didn’t work, and the KGB somehow managed to leave him free to esc…

It's a lot harder to fake incompetence and failure and besides why would you? It would look, as you say, even more suspicious. At the time, Soviet intelligence services were counting how many windows were lit up after hours in US government buildings chasing signs of plans for an entirely imaginary first nuclear strike. A dude landed a plane in the middle of Red Square. The Soviets fucked up just like everyone else.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#109
post #33

"The story of The Spy was really a story of loneliness…" My wife and I just finished watching all of The Americans on Hulu, and this really resonates with me. Somehow, I managed to completely miss the show when it ran from 2013-2018, and was only reminded of its existence after watching and enjoying The Diplomat on Netflix, which also features Keri Russell in a starring role. The Americans is about pair of deep cover…

It's maybe one of the 3 best drama series of the last 20 years, and easily one of the 5 best. For a (nonfic) book in the same vein, try The Billion Dollar Spy.

I assume The Wire and Breaking Bad are on your top 5 list. What else is on there?

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#110
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After reading that book I could not shake the feeling that Gordievsky’s defection was “too good to be true.” The intelligence he exfiltrated (with very few exceptions) was hugely beneficial in creating a back-channel between the USSR’s leadership and the West; his “arrest and interrogation” in Moscow was completely inept and even the use of truth drugs didn’t work, and the KGB somehow managed to leave him free to esc…

It's a lot harder to fake incompetence and failure and besides why would you? It would look, as you say, even more suspicious. At the time, Soviet intelligence services were counting how many windows were lit up after hours in US government buildings chasing signs of plans for an entirely imaginary first nuclear strike. A dude landed a plane in the middle of Red Square. The Soviets fucked up just like everyone else.

>It's a lot harder to fake incompetence and failure and besides why would you?

Whether Gordievsky was a triple agent or not, it's clear that the KGB desperately needed a conduit to convey useful (true) information to the West in a form that Western intelligence agencies would find credible. Western intelligence (particularly the UK) also desperately needed an asset who could produce that sort of intelligence. Gordievsky just happened to be a perfect conduit for this communication, and may have helped avert a truly stupid nuclear war.

If you assume this was an "op" then it would have to end somehow. Ideally it would end in a way that left Gordievsky alive and in the West, where he could continue to deliver his message to politicians. In order to keep Gordievsky's past information credible, he would either need to (1) be caught and tried/imprisoned, (2) defect. But I would imagine that the best case for his credibility would be some amazing combination of (1) and (2), especially a situation that would force the West to commit resources to a heroic escape that took him right out from under the KGB's nose in Moscow. This would make his handlers look brilliant, and it would make Gordievsky the kind of hero that politicians would take seriously. It would also be politically almost impossible for anyone in US/UK intelligence to ever (publicly) voice skepticism about Gordievsky.

Gordievsky's escape from Russia also seems extremely bizarre. Remember this is a man who has miraculously survived chemical interrogation, is liable to be shot at any moment, but has somehow slipped his KGB tail and traveled halfway across Russia to a border town. Whatever doubts the KGB had before, he is now a dead man if they catch him. Yet instead of hiding in the woods waiting for his rescue, he heads into town, gets drunk, falls asleep in a restaurant and nearly misses the appointment to escape to the West? I guess people behave strangely under stress, but there's strange and there's "death wish." Perfectly reasonable, though, if the whole thing was fake.

Finally there's the fact that Gordievsky's arrest story was almost immediately verified by Vitaly Yurchenko, whose "defection" is utterly bizarre. Yurchenko just happened to be an expert in "special drugs" who defected right after Gordievsky escaped, basically for the sole purpose of solidifying Gordievsky's story and drawing attention away from Aldrich Ames. Then, literally weeks after delivering his confirmation to US intelligence, Yurchenko walks out of a Washington, DC restaurant and heads straight back to the USSR where he is awarded the Order of the Red Star for "a successful infiltration operation."

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