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John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

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Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#71

Post by wkat4242 »

wombatpm wrote: post #20
nocoiner wrote: post #4

Anyone have any recommendations for other classic spy novels like le Carre’s? I’ve read some Greene and Deighton, which were both mentioned in the article, so I suppose I should revisit those, but would be interested in any other works with a similar scene and setting. One of my favorite le Carre tidbits - apparently in the UK and US versions of “Tinker, Tailor,” a character in one version takes a ferry in Hong Kong,…

Robert Ludlum had many that were great. The original Bourne Identity got my family hooked. Beware the post death authorized books David Morrel also had some good ones. Brotherhood of the Rose was great.

Same with Tom Clancy's. He wrote some pretty genius books with original stories and then it turned into a bunch of series that were nothing than drivel by other authors, like "op center".

Even now they stamp his name on games and series he had nothing to do with. I wish that would be illegal, writing a book under the name of someone who had nothing to do with it.

Ps the second Bourne book was soooo much better than the movie and so completely different. From the major events with characters (not wanting to spoil) to the setting in Hong Kong.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#72

Post by halicarnassus »

It's a boring stereotype of good and evil, which threw almost half the world's population from the wrong side of the iron curtain under the bus.

It chastises the behavior of those people while praising their own behavior, even though it's essentially the same.

It sees heroes in spies, even though they are villains.

Each side thinks, that they are on the right side.

Edit: Even though the novel tries to point this out a little, it still uses all of the above to great effect.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#73

Post by thazework »

nocoiner wrote: post #4

Anyone have any recommendations for other classic spy novels like le Carre’s? I’ve read some Greene and Deighton, which were both mentioned in the article, so I suppose I should revisit those, but would be interested in any other works with a similar scene and setting. One of my favorite le Carre tidbits - apparently in the UK and US versions of “Tinker, Tailor,” a character in one version takes a ferry in Hong Kong,…

It's not a spy novel by any stretch but if you enjoyed TSWCIFTC you'll like For whom the bell tolls. The character portrayals are similarly ambiguous (among many other reasons to read that book)

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#74

Post by paulryanrogers »

perilunar wrote: post #38
noirbot wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really curious if there's a name for this phenomenon - being unimpressed by something that was a transformative work at the time because of how much it transformed the genre or medium in its image. I often think of The Matrix being a good example of this, both in how it defined the sort of "the world is a computer" trope, but also just action movies for a while. It's still good, but some of the impressiveness of…

I asked my son, who's a keen gamer, if he had ever played RtCW, Doom or Quake. They are 'old and boring' apparently, and far too crude. He's not at all curious about trying out the 'originals'. I guess he's too young to have any nostalgia for them. I understand it though — I didn't have much interest in history at that age either.

There are some young ones curious about the past games. Albeit a small subset. The nephews at least play a few with me when they're in town: Red Alert, Doom, old Quake mods, etc.

I've noticed that I myself cannot stand games significantly older than my own coming-of-age era. So anything less than VGA is hard for me to appreciate, despite an interest in learning about such things. Let's Plays and video reviews by more patient and tolerant players is how I appreciate them now.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#75

Post by serallak »

noirbot wrote: post #13
jhbadger wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is because the novel has entered the subconscious of spy fiction and so many things have been inspired by it intentionally or not that it doesn't seem as fresh as it once did. But at the time, the notion that intelligence work is a dirty game and that everybody follows basically the same rulebook was pretty novel and even shocking. These days this is just generally accepted as true -- even the recent James…

I'm really curious if there's a name for this phenomenon - being unimpressed by something that was a transformative work at the time because of how much it transformed the genre or medium in its image. I often think of The Matrix being a good example of this, both in how it defined the sort of "the world is a computer" trope, but also just action movies for a while. It's still good, but some of the impressiveness of…

Lord of The Rings cames to mind.

It almost invented the Fantasy genre as we know it today.

It is still very much appreciated, but I've found that some people think it is boring.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#76

Post by b33j0r »

I know you got it.

But. For anyone who was me. I went so many years not getting the Tinker Tailor reference. I “read” the book years ago after seeing the movie. Yep.

It’s a variation of the rhyme we learned as “eenie-meenie miney-mo.” It names jobs, and replaces the schoolyard rhyme’s 4th job with “spy.”

That version actually makes sense, while the version I grew up with sounds like the gibberish of which we accuse the brits ;)

(I’m sure all of that was clear in the book and the movie. But I know I just helped at least one other person with ADD!)

Edit: I’ll save you the google. It’s “tinker, tailor, soldier, sailor” in 1930’s UK schoolboy parlance. That’s the clever bit that wooshed me

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#78

Post by hackandthink »

nocoiner wrote: post #4

Anyone have any recommendations for other classic spy novels like le Carre’s? I’ve read some Greene and Deighton, which were both mentioned in the article, so I suppose I should revisit those, but would be interested in any other works with a similar scene and setting. One of my favorite le Carre tidbits - apparently in the UK and US versions of “Tinker, Tailor,” a character in one version takes a ferry in Hong Kong,…

Kim Philby's "My Silent War" is a good read.

Sometimes autobiography, sometimes fiction.

(the guy literally had a hell of a life)

https://books.google.de/books/about/My_Silent_War.html?id=du...

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#79

Post by mattbrewsbytes »

wkat4242 wrote: post #71
wombatpm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Robert Ludlum had many that were great. The original Bourne Identity got my family hooked. Beware the post death authorized books David Morrel also had some good ones. Brotherhood of the Rose was great.

Same with Tom Clancy's. He wrote some pretty genius books with original stories and then it turned into a bunch of series that were nothing than drivel by other authors, like "op center". Even now they stamp his name on games and series he had nothing to do with. I wish that would be illegal, writing a book under the name of someone who had nothing to do with it. Ps the second Bourne book was soooo much better than t…

Tom Clancy was my favorite author, I think authors sign contracts that let some entity use their name and it turns into a brand. The Jack Ryan books after he passed or had other writers weren’t that good. How far can you go after the main character becomes President? I did stumble onto one of those authors, Mark Greaney, who wrote The Gray Man series of novels (the netflix movie is not a good representation at all). Spy/action thrillers, main character is CIA “ground branch” type, not a chess match kind of spy.

Re: John le Carré's 'The Spy Who Came in from the Cold' is the ultimate spy novel

#80

Post by appplication »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #32

"The story of The Spy was really a story of loneliness…" My wife and I just finished watching all of The Americans on Hulu, and this really resonates with me. Somehow, I managed to completely miss the show when it ran from 2013-2018, and was only reminded of its existence after watching and enjoying The Diplomat on Netflix, which also features Keri Russell in a starring role. The Americans is about pair of deep cover…

Tangent: is anyone familiar with a good app to help make a note of what shows you want to watch later? I know Letterboxd sort of does this for movies, but ( last I checked) they ignore the existence of TV. Each platform has its own short implementation of watch lists but they’re all pretty half baked. Is there good 3rd party app?
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