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An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

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Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#221

Post by tremon »

blahblahblack wrote: post #209
mkoubaa wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But the way the bill is worded, It implies that anyone in my lineage can be sued based on my perceived caste (based on allegations of course) that is inherited to me against my will." Not a legal expert but this is extremely far fetched. You must have a great deal of contempt for the US legal system if you think this.

It's not just about legal system being abused. I would like to see casteism dissolved from the world. Grew up in India and I was taught to be caste agnostic. I have seen my parents being friends with and working with people of all castes. I grew up pretty liberal. This bill is trying to attack on a problem that does not exist on the same scale as any of the other discriminatory issues that we ever talk about here in…

the bill is trying to attack on a problem that does not exist on the same scale as any of the other discriminatory issues

This is an invalid argument. You are effectively defending a practice based on the argument that it's not widespread. That's the same as saying that we don't need to protect transgender issues because they hardly ever get discriminated against. No -- for one, you cannot say for certain how widespread the practice is (and "I'm transgender myself" does not make you an authority on that), and second: low prevalence is not a reason for not prohibiting something. What's next? We shouldn't make laws against police violence because they kill less than 100 people/year?

If you really want to see casteism dissolved, you should not oppose laws trying to codify exactly that.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#222

Post by aaomidi »

dudus wrote: post #18

When the subject came up at Google I didn't know much to contribute to the discussion. I noticed white people were against it while Indians had a more nuanced approach. But I always thought the way the predominant Indian leadership, Sundar included, completely ignored the matter was weird. That spoke louder than anything else they could have said.

> I noticed white people were against it while Indians had a more nuanced approach.

It's not that complicated. White people have been fighting this type of discrimination far more than any other ethnic group in the US. (I am Iranian, and this is completely evident to me).

Nearly every other ethnic group has its own weird culture of discrimination. As these ethnic groups take hold in the US, those forms of discrimination are not, and should not be tolerated.

One thing to consider is, many of the Indians that _are able to make it to the US_, are the ones who have benefited from the high class of their caste. Even if they're against it in theory, in practice that's going to take a much more nuanced PoV - so you're going to be seeing a lot of selection bias.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#223

Post by hef19898 »

blahblahblack wrote: post #220
hef19898 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like "now under this bill, I cannot discriminate anymore based on my, and others, heritage that was opposed on us against their will, obviously this is against nature / the will of the gods..."

Bhai, I've never discriminated against anybody ever or even thought about it. I'm an extremely liberal person who support all the liberal policies in America. People need to open their eyes and realize that this bill is meant for split and division, not unity. This is definitely a larger political game than me and you.

Ah, pardon? In case caste based discrimination isn't a thing, this bill won't make a difference. And it wont devide anyone.

The title was, that it hit a nerve, that bill. It seems that truely is the case...

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#224

Post by catlover76 »

blahblahblack wrote: post #162
whats_a_quasar wrote: post #16

I'm legitimately confused about the strength of opposition to the measure. It seems like it should be a small, uncontroversial, update to protected categories. Are people opposing the term "caste" appearing in U.S. law? Is the concern that the law will cause other Americans to judge Indian/Nepalese/Sri Lankan communities? If anyone here can explain the emotional significance of the bill to someone who is not South As…

I am an Indian who oppose this bill, because of multiple reasons. A good amount of Indian population here in America is form a Hindu background. And the majority of that population doesn't really believe in a caste system. I have never ever ill intentionally asked anyone their caste. But the way the bill is worded, It implies that anyone in my lineage can be sued based on my perceived caste (based on allegations of c…

I think you have some misunderstanding about how anti-discrimination laws actually work.

Others probably have more expertise than me, but I would highlight the following points:

1) The only way such a lawsuit would be successful is if he actually did something to indicate some decision was based off of caste.

2) Everyone can already be sued based off of attributes they have inherited against their will. People can be sued for discriminating against the opposite (or even the same!) gender, people can be sued for discriminating on the basis of race. Your son didn't choose to get born Indian, but he could still be sued for promoting Indians over Hispanics or something.

3) It is not only higher caste Hindus that can be sued for caste discrimination if that's a protected status. A manager of no religion or any religion could also be theoretically sued for discriminating against low-caste Hindus--or descendants of Japanese butchers, which, to my knowledge, constitute a low caste in Japan.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#225

Post by chargingmarmot »

mkoubaa wrote: post #193
bandyaboot wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know a lot about this subject and am definitely open to my perception being wrong, but reading about the opposition to this makes we wonder whether it’s akin to the south during the civil war—“we want to secede because of injustices against us, totally not because we want to keep slavery”.

That's more retroactive. The confederates didn't have any shame about their motivations when they seceded.

I'm not sure what you're arguing, but I don't think its true that the claim "we want to secede because of injustices against us" was retroactive.

see: https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declarati...

"The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union."

I think there's a tendency for discussions about the south's position in the civil war to end up with slavery poisoning the well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#226

Post by yumraj »

ramraj07 wrote: post #194
yumraj wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you ever analyze if this was purely due to your caste or if it was due to you being perceived (real or not I don’t know) as someone who is from the reserved category and hence benefited from reservation in college admission. I don’t give a shit about caste, never have, and for most part can’t tell based on last names, but I’ll be honest that even after decades I still feel a little raw about reservation. And ther…

As mentioned, I’m only slightly lower than the uppermost caste, so I’m not in any extreme reservation category. And I didn’t use reservation either. None of that matters since many of these incidents happen within 15 minutes of the first meeting. Roughly around when they start to realize and ask, “oh, you’re not Brahmin?” Importantly, this question sounds more like trying to find a reason why casteism is justified tb…

> Importantly, this question sounds more like trying to find a reason why casteism is justified tbh.

No of course it’s not justified, and not sure why you thought I was trying to do that. I apologize if my comment came across like that.

I have never been in your shoes, so was trying to understand.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#227

Post by hef19898 »

eklavya wrote: post #179
ScoobleDoodle wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by “behave this way”? I have no idea what in particular you’re referring to. It could be parent. Or something in grand parent and you’re supporting parent.

If you think the comment was made in good faith with good intentions ;) and you read my reply above, it should be pretty obvious that I am talking about educated people discriminating on the basis of caste.

You now the bit about Nazis, you can be two of either a) a nice person b) an intelligent person c) a Nazi.

I guess the works for all kinds of cases of discrimination.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#228

Post by amluto »

rawgabbit wrote: post #212
amluto wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's mentioned in the article is that as caste is a primarily SE Asian phenomenon, this is a bill that targets SE Asians. People tend not to like being singled out on the basis of their race. That seems weak. One should not (and legally may not) discriminate on the basis of being Indian, which is a South Asian phenomenon. One should not discriminate on the basis of having Native Hawaiian ancestry, which is a Hawa…

I thought Indians are South Asian?

Whoops, I, mindlessly copied the post I was replying to.

Re: An effort to ban caste discrimination in California has touched a nerve

#230

Post by pandaman »

Has anybody noticed requests for referrals from Indian students/fresh grads flooding Linkedin? Is this a caste thing? What kind of referral you can expect from a complete stranger other than "This person is of the right origin for this job"? I am not an Indian and cannot tell which one is which caste but I figure they just mass-mail everyone.
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