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Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

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Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#41

Post by iancmceachern »

arghwhat wrote: post #36
iancmceachern wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of headline drives me nuts. Da Vinci is telecontrolled. The robot does nothing but imitate the exact motion its commanded to by the surgeon. The headline should read " Surgeon saves patients life using surgical tool that has been widely available an on the market for decades" The medical professionals deserve the credit. If this was 20 years ago, yeah, we should celebrate the technical achievement and advan…

Yes, but let's also avoid oversimplifying how complicated that robot is, how much tuning the controls took and how much special training the surgeon needed. Not a new concept by any means, but still worthy of continued praise and admiration.

Agreed, well said

Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#42

Post by PrimeMcFly »

richk449 wrote: post #13
idiot900 wrote: post #7

Robotic head and neck surgery is routine at major medical centers all over. Da Vinci has been around for many years and it is human controlled. I’m glad this patient was helped but there is absolutely nothing interesting otherwise about this.

What an amazing world we live in. There is nothing interesting about a robotic assisted surgery able to perform more delicate and sophisticated operations than the best human surgeon in the world.

Correct. In the same way there is nothing interesting about being able to buy a 60" flat screen TV for $300 brand new.

Times change, technology advances, and when those advances become 'old' they cease to be interesting for the most part.

Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#44

Post by dv_dt »

CuriousCosmic wrote: post #31
capableweb wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case, it's about a "inoperable tumor" so I'm guessing a human hand wouldn't be able to do it at all. That's what makes this particular case more amazing.

Well only if you don't consider the surgeon who operated the davinci robot. Not to diminish this case at all but people kinda misinterpret how surgical robots operate. They are less like CNC robots where you program in a control path before hand and the robot follows it. Rather they are like a set of "prosthetic" tools that allow you to stabilize your movements and shrink them down to extremely small motions beyond t…

I think there are also cnc type robots in surgery but doing more limited tasks - you see them in some orthopedic surgeries where they cut precision sockets to join prosthetic parts.

Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#45

Post by richk449 »

iancmceachern wrote: post #35
richk449 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, amazing, not perfect. If DaVinci hadn’t developed the robot, would more people be able to afford health care?

Yes. Da Vinci is famously not better. There isn't a single study showing its better. It's also not less expensive, and doesn't reduce staffing needs in the OR. What is it? A marketing tool. Surgery centers and hospitals can drive increases in patients and patient throughput, improving their bottom line. It's marketing and throughout. They have a classic razor razor blade model. The surgical instrument are proprietary…

Thanks for the informative reply. Your comment rings true to me, since I am aware of other medical systems that are marketing tools.

I have questions though.

Is the davinci amazing? I have heard that it is.

Why doesn’t someone else make a similar product? Is there technology that is hard to replicate?

Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#46

Post by Ekaros »

jaclaz wrote: post #4
konschubert wrote: post #3

This is an ad with very little information.

It seems more a summary of this (linked to): https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/first-p...

So sounds like slow news-day.

A columnist got surgery done for case with some complications. Next some other publication wrote article to generate articles. Essentially showing where we are. Mildly interesting things get circulated.

Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#47

Post by jwilk »

bionhoward wrote: post #14

One time in med school we had a lecture by the da Vinci surgeon guy, and of course I had to stick my hand up. “Will there ever come a time when the human hand cannot keep up with the instrument?” The whole room (200 people) laughed out loud, and the surgeon said, “No.”

What do you mean by "cannot keep up with the instrument"?

Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#48

Post by robotresearcher »

iancmceachern wrote: post #35
richk449 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, amazing, not perfect. If DaVinci hadn’t developed the robot, would more people be able to afford health care?

Yes. Da Vinci is famously not better. There isn't a single study showing its better. It's also not less expensive, and doesn't reduce staffing needs in the OR. What is it? A marketing tool. Surgery centers and hospitals can drive increases in patients and patient throughput, improving their bottom line. It's marketing and throughout. They have a classic razor razor blade model. The surgical instrument are proprietary…

> Da Vinci is famously not better.

Not better than surgeons with competing devices, or not better than surgeons without these tools?

Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#50

Post by iancmceachern »

richk449 wrote: post #45
iancmceachern wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Da Vinci is famously not better. There isn't a single study showing its better. It's also not less expensive, and doesn't reduce staffing needs in the OR. What is it? A marketing tool. Surgery centers and hospitals can drive increases in patients and patient throughput, improving their bottom line. It's marketing and throughout. They have a classic razor razor blade model. The surgical instrument are proprietary…

Thanks for the informative reply. Your comment rings true to me, since I am aware of other medical systems that are marketing tools. I have questions though. Is the davinci amazing? I have heard that it is. Why doesn’t someone else make a similar product? Is there technology that is hard to replicate?

It's totally amazing. It's like a space shuttle. It's the culmination of decades if investment and decades of some of the smartest people in robotics working tirelessly. It's a modern marvel.

Others have been trying for years. The latest big player is J&J who faces an existential threat due to robotic surgery overtaking conventional surgery, and therefore one of J&J/Ethicons core business. They bought Verb and Auris and a few other smaller companies in the space and smashed them together. There are others in the space trying to do the same.

Ultimately Intuitive has a pretty big moat. They have a lot on the technical/IP side, but also just business wise. These hospitals and surgery centers pay millions for a robot, then need to keep it busy doing cases for several years to pay it off. There is a lot of risk and not really any clear advantages to changing to a new challenger. That new challenger would need to demonstrate some key advantage, which they have yet to do.

It's hard, its akin to trying to compete with space x or similar, starting now.

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