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Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

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Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#31

Post by CuriousCosmic »

capableweb wrote: post #20
robotresearcher wrote: post #18

“Surgeon removes tumor using current best practices” doesn’t sound so exciting, but is actually more amazing. These devices have made some hard surgeries much more doable.

In this case, it's about a "inoperable tumor" so I'm guessing a human hand wouldn't be able to do it at all. That's what makes this particular case more amazing.

Well only if you don't consider the surgeon who operated the davinci robot.

Not to diminish this case at all but people kinda misinterpret how surgical robots operate. They are less like CNC robots where you program in a control path before hand and the robot follows it. Rather they are like a set of "prosthetic" tools that allow you to stabilize your movements and shrink them down to extremely small motions beyond the precision human hands are capable of.

It still takes an extremely skilled human surgeon at the controls at all points of the surgery to make this possible, these are just tools that give those surgeons more fidelity and stability in their motions.

No less amazing in the slightest but make no mistake that this surgery was performed by a human, just with a far more advanced kit of scalpels and forceps.

Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#32

Post by arcticbull »

richk449 wrote: post #16

Anyone know more about robot assist systems in general? Are there similar systems for performing delicate assembly operations on a production line? (Non medical) The die binders that I used to use had physical motion reduction systems - are there more general versions of these available?

The whole sub specialty of design for manufacturing and assembly (DFMA) helps us avoid the need for humans in robot exoskeletons on the assembly line.

Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#33

Post by iancmceachern »

richk449 wrote: post #13
idiot900 wrote: post #7

Robotic head and neck surgery is routine at major medical centers all over. Da Vinci has been around for many years and it is human controlled. I’m glad this patient was helped but there is absolutely nothing interesting otherwise about this.

What an amazing world we live in. There is nothing interesting about a robotic assisted surgery able to perform more delicate and sophisticated operations than the best human surgeon in the world.

This kind of headline drives me nuts.

Da Vinci is telecontrolled. The robot does nothing but imitate the exact motion its commanded to by the surgeon.

The headline should read " Surgeon saves patients life using surgical tool that has been widely available an on the market for decades"

The medical professionals deserve the credit. If this was 20 years ago, yeah, we should celebrate the technical achievement and advancement, but there isn't one here. It's old news.

Source- I've designed several (surgical robots)

Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#34

Post by robotresearcher »

vorticalbox wrote: post #29
capableweb wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case, it's about a "inoperable tumor" so I'm guessing a human hand wouldn't be able to do it at all. That's what makes this particular case more amazing.

The article states it would have required breaking the jaw in two. So it was doable but as the article states "no one was lining up"

But they didn’t have to line up to do it that way, because the robot is widely available these days.

Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#35

Post by iancmceachern »

richk449 wrote: post #26
coldtea wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What an amazing world we live in. The kind of amazing where untold millions of people can't afford basic healthcare in the same country that we have a robot surgeon?

Yea, amazing, not perfect. If DaVinci hadn’t developed the robot, would more people be able to afford health care?

Yes.

Da Vinci is famously not better. There isn't a single study showing its better. It's also not less expensive, and doesn't reduce staffing needs in the OR.

What is it? A marketing tool. Surgery centers and hospitals can drive increases in patients and patient throughput, improving their bottom line. It's marketing and throughout.

They have a classic razor razor blade model. The surgical instrument are proprietary and locked in with eeprom chips in the disposables. They only last a handful if cases and then must be replaces. Intuitive made something like 80 billion last year and has had no real competition in their market for decades. As a result they've been able to pretty much write their own checks, choosing how much stuff costs and achieving huge margins on lots of very expensive equipment and supplies.

Source- I've worked on and lead the design teams for surgical robots for several companies in the field.

Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#36

Post by arghwhat »

iancmceachern wrote: post #33
richk449 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an amazing world we live in. There is nothing interesting about a robotic assisted surgery able to perform more delicate and sophisticated operations than the best human surgeon in the world.

This kind of headline drives me nuts. Da Vinci is telecontrolled. The robot does nothing but imitate the exact motion its commanded to by the surgeon. The headline should read " Surgeon saves patients life using surgical tool that has been widely available an on the market for decades" The medical professionals deserve the credit. If this was 20 years ago, yeah, we should celebrate the technical achievement and advan…

Yes, but let's also avoid oversimplifying how complicated that robot is, how much tuning the controls took and how much special training the surgeon needed.

Not a new concept by any means, but still worthy of continued praise and admiration.

Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#37

Post by nscalf »

coldtea wrote: post #19
richk449 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an amazing world we live in. There is nothing interesting about a robotic assisted surgery able to perform more delicate and sophisticated operations than the best human surgeon in the world.

>What an amazing world we live in. The kind of amazing where untold millions of people can't afford basic healthcare in the same country that we have a robot surgeon?

This robot didn’t pull money that would otherwise be used for giving people healthcare. You’re complaining about unrelated things, the problem is around bought and sold politicians allowing for regulatory capture in healthcare, not around great science and engineering building an impressive product. This what-aboutism is just pathetic.

Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#38

Post by ww520 »

richk449 wrote: post #13
idiot900 wrote: post #7

Robotic head and neck surgery is routine at major medical centers all over. Da Vinci has been around for many years and it is human controlled. I’m glad this patient was helped but there is absolutely nothing interesting otherwise about this.

What an amazing world we live in. There is nothing interesting about a robotic assisted surgery able to perform more delicate and sophisticated operations than the best human surgeon in the world.

Yes, the medical advancement is quite amazing. Couple years ago a friend went on a funding tour visiting startups and he mentioned he saw a demo of 3D oral scanning device to build a 3D model of the teeth. This year I saw the device in my dentist office and did an oral scan to build the 3D mold for bite guard. He said it's cheaper than the old method.

Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#39

Post by iancmceachern »

I really don't like these kinds of headlines.

The medical professionals are the real heros here. If the da Vinci system had just come out and this was some new capability I would understand. In this case the headline should say "surgical staff saves life of inoperable patient using standard surgical quality of care and using device that has been available on the.market for 15 years".

It's one thing to say "new Invention of the automobile saves life of first ambulance passenger" and another to say, today, the same thing.

Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#40

Post by monero-xmr »

coldtea wrote: post #19
richk449 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an amazing world we live in. There is nothing interesting about a robotic assisted surgery able to perform more delicate and sophisticated operations than the best human surgeon in the world.

>What an amazing world we live in. The kind of amazing where untold millions of people can't afford basic healthcare in the same country that we have a robot surgeon?

Do you hate yourself for living under a roof when so many can’t? For eating dinner when so many are starving? For drinking clean water when so much pollution exists?

Good stuff happening shouldn’t make you miserable.

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