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"Lighten up"

therealkatie.net

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Re: "Lighten up"

#161

Post by hythloday »

mhartl wrote: post #93

"Oop, Katie's got the low cut dress on today! I know where I'm sitting!" ... Go to HR and get stuck with his work when they move or can him? The thing is, we live in a legal environment where she probably could go to HR and get him moved or fired for saying this. And yet, some men are still sexist jerks to women in the workplace. This suggests that all the blog-posting and HN-comment-hand-wringing in the world won't…

And yet you have two people in this thread saying "I see myself in what you complain about and I don't like it". It's interesting that you draw from that "nothing can ever change" (my phrasing).

Re: "Lighten up"

#162

Post by [deleted] »

klausa wrote: post #87

You see, I have problem with posts like this. First I'm like - "Woah, I can't imagine someone would be so insensitive to make joke like this!" and get all fed up and upset. But then... then I freeze, because next example is something that I can imagine myself saying. "Oop, Katie's got the low cut dress on today! I know where I'm sitting!" I... I'm at loss of words. I was trained during my teenage years, that it's coo…

[deleted]

Re: "Lighten up"

#163

Post by jonstjohn »

georgieporgie wrote: post #24

Well said. I'm seriously considering leaving the field of software because I'm tired of working with 25 - 35 year old manchildren.

I studied (and loved) Physics during my undergraduate education, but left it sophomore year because Physics 200 was filled with immature (seemingly) teenage boys with no social skills. I was looking for a broader experience. Tried biology (study of life, better male/female ratio), studied abroad in China, then graduated with a degree in Religion. It took me quite a few years to start working in software development, which I love, and brought me back to my analytic roots. Sometimes I wish I would have stuck with Physics, but had a lot of great experiences in the world on the path I chose.

So, I can relate to not always jiving with the software culture, but I'm definitely sticking with it b/c it is what I love doing - and I have found a really great community in it despite some of the short-comings.

Re: "Lighten up"

#164

Post by richardk »

It's bizarre, I'm sure if I made any of those comments to women at university I would quickly become pretty unpopular.

So is this just a problem of the previous generation or a problem specific to the workplace?

I really do feel for the author, I can't imagine how awful it must be to put up with that kind of thing everyday.

Re: "Lighten up"

#165

Post by nollidge »

daenz wrote: post #56
sgt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's actually got a point. She may be victimizing herself and blowing this way out of proportion. There are plenty of guys out there also taking "shit" from co-workers but biting the bullet and rather coming up with a witty response than shutting themselves in.

I think what I am learning from this thread is that this is an "untouchable" subject, in that if you do not naturally side with the person's allegations and white-knight for them, you are part of the problem.

No. You're part of the problem if you're part of the problem. That's it.

"White-knighting" is a bullshit Orwellian term designed to make sexist assholes feel justified. As though defending against sexism under an assumed name on an Internet message board in order to earn sexual favors from fawning women.

No, the real reason I'm "white-knighting" is because I think it's shitty to make people feel uncomfortable for who they are.

Re: "Lighten up"

#166

Post by richardk »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #158
richardk wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Start wearing sweaters, even though my breasts feel like they're boiling in there (yup, that's one reason women like low tops, guys)?"

Mens' clothes are completely different from womens', though, particularly in what constitutes "sexually attractive" clothing (which the term "low-cut dress" seems to imply). Do women have a higher body temperature that they have to wear less clothing to account for?

So, do guys wear shorts to draw attention to their legs or because it's more comfortable?

Because it's more comfortable.

So, maybe it's possible that a woman might wear a low cut dress because it's more comfortable?

Re: "Lighten up"

#167

Post by jberryman »

Kind of meta, but I've noticed two things from this thread

1) I think I always imagine everyone here as a man, unless they identify themselves otherwise or I notice their username suggests they're female, and

2) reading the female voices here really gave me the sense of HN as a much richer, more interesting community

Re: "Lighten up"

#168

Post by mechanical_fish »

kevinalexbrown wrote: post #140

As the woman, I've been the only person in the group asked to put together a pot luck (presumably, this work is beneath the males). I've been the only one asked to take notes in a meeting... even if I'm the one who's presenting (because my title really should be 'secretary who we let on the servers'). This, more than the jokes and comments, is the meat of the problem. Inappropriate jokes can be much more easily addre…

It seems to me that this is where the men on the team can help: As a man, I'd volunteer to take notes.

Of course, this may not be tempting, because you may be on the kind of team where you just know that, if you volunteer to do some thankless task, you'll be stuck with it forever. And that is an entirely different kind of problem. But it's a problem that should not be covered up by deploying sexism.

Re: "Lighten up"

#169

Post by mhartl »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #159
mhartl wrote: post #93

"Oop, Katie's got the low cut dress on today! I know where I'm sitting!" ... Go to HR and get stuck with his work when they move or can him? The thing is, we live in a legal environment where she probably could go to HR and get him moved or fired for saying this. And yet, some men are still sexist jerks to women in the workplace. This suggests that all the blog-posting and HN-comment-hand-wringing in the world won't…

It used to be acceptable to use the N-word in the workplace. Casually. With seriousness. Things change. Fuck acceptance.

Acceptance is the only rational response when you lack sufficient power to effect change.

Re: "Lighten up"

#170

Post by mhartl »

hythloday wrote: post #161
mhartl wrote: post #93

"Oop, Katie's got the low cut dress on today! I know where I'm sitting!" ... Go to HR and get stuck with his work when they move or can him? The thing is, we live in a legal environment where she probably could go to HR and get him moved or fired for saying this. And yet, some men are still sexist jerks to women in the workplace. This suggests that all the blog-posting and HN-comment-hand-wringing in the world won't…

And yet you have two people in this thread saying "I see myself in what you complain about and I don't like it". It's interesting that you draw from that "nothing can ever change" (my phrasing).

You put quotes around the phrase "nothing can ever change", and yet that phrase doesn't appear in the parent comment. I suggest restricting yourself to rebutting arguments I actually made.
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