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"Lighten up"

therealkatie.net

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Re: "Lighten up"

#151

Post by mtoddh »

stcredzero wrote: post #98
crusso wrote: post #13

@kcunning - How do you contrast your desire to have a perfectly professional relationship with everyone you work with vs a desire to enjoy an office environment where you can joke around and have fun? While I understand your answer may well be, "Leave the jokes at home, Mr. Colbert. I'm here to code and make a paycheck." I would be sad if my relationship with my coworkers couldn't handle, let alone thrive upon, humor…

I would be sad if my relationship with my coworkers couldn't handle, let alone thrive upon, humorous interactions. There is a big difference underneath the surface, though on the surface, many such incidents look like just "joking around." The difference has to do with social distance. If you feel an off-color remark is appropriate for someone you barely know, then I hate to tell you, but you're on one end of an asym…

men in the US felt entitled to join conversations with and sit at the same table with a pair of young women they didn't know and had just met

Unrelated to the thread, but isn't this how you get know people you've just met?

Re: "Lighten up"

#152

Post by Cushman »

pippy wrote: post #120
klausa wrote: post #87

You see, I have problem with posts like this. First I'm like - "Woah, I can't imagine someone would be so insensitive to make joke like this!" and get all fed up and upset. But then... then I freeze, because next example is something that I can imagine myself saying. "Oop, Katie's got the low cut dress on today! I know where I'm sitting!" I... I'm at loss of words. I was trained during my teenage years, that it's coo…

Admittedly I did the exact same thing as you, right down to the same quote. Most male dominated fields of work behave like this - it's a reflection of subtle rules society that we're taught at a young age. We can try to patch it over but it might cut deeper than just culture, it maybe simply inherently biological the behavior of men around a single female.

Well, first off, this is definitely not an inherent biological thing. There is a large population of (straight, sexually active) men who have no difficulty treating women in social and professional settings as peers rather than sexual objects.

If you find that you have difficulty doing this, then you are literally a part of the problem with our community that we are discussing, and you should be spending a non-trivial amount of your time learning to manage your disability.

And I mean that-- it's something that you grew up with, it's a problem, we're all here together to help you through it. But first you need to admit that it's something you have to fix.

Re: "Lighten up"

#153

Post by danielharan »

squadron wrote: post #53

Silicon Valley investors (PG included) prefer to invest in young rockstarish startups, so why are we surprised when we see these high profile startups do immature and sexist things? If maturity and manners were important to investors, they would be screening for it. As far as I know, they are not.

Her bio says where she works, and it's not a startup, let alone a YC startup.

Re: "Lighten up"

#154

Post by Tichy »

richardk wrote: post #136
ryanwaggoner wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Katie's got the low cut dress on today! I know where I'm sitting!"...As I'm getting older, I see how sexist and demeaning this is. At the risk of revealing myself to be a chauvinistic jerk, is this kind of response sexist and demeaning, or just inappropriate for the workplace? Why do women wear low-cut dresses if not to attract male attention (in the majority of cases)? Would it be sexist and demeaning for me to not…

"Start wearing sweaters, even though my breasts feel like they're boiling in there (yup, that's one reason women like low tops, guys)?"

I find it hard to believe that low cut dresses are the only possible solution here.

Re: "Lighten up"

#155

Post by hellerbarde »

ootachi wrote: post #67
doki_pen wrote: post #64

I'm willing to bet that this type of behavior is a lot less likely in a start up. Something about assholes and corporate jobs. I'd like to think nothing like that would ever happen where I work. Does any women on hear have any first hand experience? One thing that did bother me about the article though. She complained about being asked to cook, but on her about page it says she loves to cook and looks for any excuse.…

On the contrary, this happens all the time in startups. Think about it: a lot of startups consist of early 20-something males running everything.

oh, wow, yeah, i never thought about it that way. good point!

Re: "Lighten up"

#156

Post by anon808 »

crusso wrote: post #13

@kcunning - How do you contrast your desire to have a perfectly professional relationship with everyone you work with vs a desire to enjoy an office environment where you can joke around and have fun? While I understand your answer may well be, "Leave the jokes at home, Mr. Colbert. I'm here to code and make a paycheck." I would be sad if my relationship with my coworkers couldn't handle, let alone thrive upon, humor…

does your office environment where you can joke around and have fun include racist humor?

Re: "Lighten up"

#157

Post by daenz »

mhartl wrote: post #93

"Oop, Katie's got the low cut dress on today! I know where I'm sitting!" ... Go to HR and get stuck with his work when they move or can him? The thing is, we live in a legal environment where she probably could go to HR and get him moved or fired for saying this. And yet, some men are still sexist jerks to women in the workplace. This suggests that all the blog-posting and HN-comment-hand-wringing in the world won't…

Amen. Don't let the downvotes bother you, you're seeing 100% clearly and not blinded by the irrationality that seems to be filling this thread.

Re: "Lighten up"

#158

Post by ryanwaggoner »

richardk wrote: post #136
ryanwaggoner wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Katie's got the low cut dress on today! I know where I'm sitting!"...As I'm getting older, I see how sexist and demeaning this is. At the risk of revealing myself to be a chauvinistic jerk, is this kind of response sexist and demeaning, or just inappropriate for the workplace? Why do women wear low-cut dresses if not to attract male attention (in the majority of cases)? Would it be sexist and demeaning for me to not…

"Start wearing sweaters, even though my breasts feel like they're boiling in there (yup, that's one reason women like low tops, guys)?"

Mens' clothes are completely different from womens', though, particularly in what constitutes "sexually attractive" clothing (which the term "low-cut dress" seems to imply). Do women have a higher body temperature that they have to wear less clothing to account for?

Re: "Lighten up"

#159

Post by InclinedPlane »

mhartl wrote: post #93

"Oop, Katie's got the low cut dress on today! I know where I'm sitting!" ... Go to HR and get stuck with his work when they move or can him? The thing is, we live in a legal environment where she probably could go to HR and get him moved or fired for saying this. And yet, some men are still sexist jerks to women in the workplace. This suggests that all the blog-posting and HN-comment-hand-wringing in the world won't…

It used to be acceptable to use the N-word in the workplace. Casually. With seriousness.

Things change.

Fuck acceptance.

Re: "Lighten up"

#160

Post by jberryman »

pingswept wrote: post #26
crusso wrote: post #13

@kcunning - How do you contrast your desire to have a perfectly professional relationship with everyone you work with vs a desire to enjoy an office environment where you can joke around and have fun? While I understand your answer may well be, "Leave the jokes at home, Mr. Colbert. I'm here to code and make a paycheck." I would be sad if my relationship with my coworkers couldn't handle, let alone thrive upon, humor…

Do you think there's a conflict between sexism and fun? As in, "Well, I'd like to stop making sexist jokes, but then it would be so boring here." I would rather work in an office where the jokes are of the funny sort, rather than the makes-one-person-feel-miserable sort. I really don't think there's any overlap between funny jokes and sexist jokes.

Completely agree. As a man witnessing the slightly sexist crap, and watching women have to sort of jokingly deflect it, is just incredibly uncomfortable. And the "joking" is never funny.

I'm going to be better at calling that shit out from now on.

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