71–80 of 829 posts
Silicon Valley investors (PG included) prefer to invest in young rockstarish startups, so why are we surprised when we see these high profile startups do immature and sexist things? If maturity and manners were important to investors, they would be screening for it. As far as I know, they are not.
Hang in there. The norms are always transitioning, so someone is always getting "the shaft" (hopefully that won't come across as sexist :) And unfortunately, when you can't change everyone's "natural" behavior, the next healthiest choice is to grow thicker skin. EDIT>> I'm not saying that it's ok she's treated like this, but you can't change everyones behavior. It takes lifetimes. In the meantime, if you want to have…
Really? Your sole contribution here is an earnest restatement of the dismissive line decried over and over in the linked piece? For shame. Edit in reply : Exactly how are these not all the same: “Hang in there,” “lighten up,” “change your perspective”?
"Hang in there" - common phrase of support. Have you seriously never heard of this? "lighten up" - dismissive, which I didn't say. "change your perspective" - Helpful advice for many situations people have to endure unjustly. If you've never been in a situation like that, be glad. If you are, and you cannot change it easily, changing your perspective works.
You're trying way too hard to villainize me, to the point of erring on the side rashness.
EDIT >> removed ad-hominem. Sorry, I slipped!
Thanks for this. I’m going to be more aware of these kind of things and more watchful to make sure I don’t contribute to this myself and more observant of those around me. Now, I have a question for the women here — sometimes I’ll hear a woman make the joke about belonging in the kitchen. Do you have insight into why that might happen sometimes and what the best sort of response would be?
Heh. I have a blog post about that as well! Basically, some women do really believe in 'traditional' roles for women. Maybe they've benefited from the current situation. Maybe it's part of their upbringing. If that's why they're making the comment, feel free to call them out on it. If they're doing it to be ironic (I know I have), then you can probably shrug it off. Many of us have learned to be subversively snarky t…
And thanks for replying. I think I have mostly seen the subversive-snark variety and just kind of laughed and moved on, so that’s good to hear.
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You're right. That is the healthiest approach for her. Which makes dealing with the bullshit that people fling at her for not having thicker skin all the more valuable. She could go along to get along, but hasn't, so everyone else won't have to go along with this crap too. Your "hopefully that won't come across as sexist" bit, by the way, belittles the concern. It's not just her concern; it's my concern too, and you'…
> Your "hopefully that won't come across as sexist" bit, by the way, belittles the concern. It's not just her concern; it's my concern too, and you've belittled it. I'm sorry if you feel that way. Someone "getting the shaft" is a common phrase. When I typed it, I realized that it had obvious masculine connotations, so I thought I'd point that out with a smiley face. The rest of my response should make it more than ob…
It doesn't, unfortunately. That's the problem with mixed signals: they're mixed.
For the record, if you realize ahead of time that a word or saying will have an unintentional double meaning in a context that you don't want, find another way of saying it.
Well said. I'm seriously considering leaving the field of software because I'm tired of working with 25 - 35 year old manchildren.
Wait till you come across the thumpers, we have one, his only saving grace from being shown the door is that he falls into a different category. Still, why would you want someone as a manager who would keep his own wife's car locked up at work because she failed to be properly respectful?
What in the hell kind of place are you working at!?
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The point is not the one moron who does it; the point is having herself to escalate the issue to HR. She's the victim, but she has to play the role of the "problem". Try to think about what you'd do if you were in the room with a team member who made a comment like that. I know what I'd do, and I don't think it is an industry norm yet. We need to get there. If it helps you to see it: think about what you'd do if a te…
"Try to think about what you'd do if you were in the room with a team member who made a comment like that. I know what I'd do, and I don't think it is an industry norm yet." I don't think things like this are clear cut like you are saying. What if you were unemployed for 2 years and then got a new job? And for an entrepreneur? Say for some reason your company isn't doing well. You go and pitch a big account that coul…
Expecting women to bring him coffee, or demanding that they also serve as PAs? That I'd have to think about.
I'd like to think I'd refuse business from (or resign from a team that failed to refuse business from) anyone who exposed themselves to a job candidate. It's fair to point out that the question has never seriously been posed to me. I've drawn lines in other business situations, but haven't had to for sexism.
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Sorry, but if one person in 30 is being a jerk, that is a steady stream of subtle harassment. Most professionals deal with what, 60 people on a weekly basis? That's two jerks every week. And your math is off. Even if there was only one woman in tech anywhere, reducing 100% male interaction to 50% male interaction would only decrease the jerk count by a factor of two.
I don't know about you, but I deal with jerks all of the damn time. But luckily no more or less than all of my peers. This would be very different if I was a woman. And we wouldn't reduce male interaction by 50%, we would increase female participation by hundreds of percents. That way if someone is being a jerk, many people can all confirm he's being a jerk.
Indeed. Jerks like this often associate in groups. As a result, women sometimes find themselves in a bizarro social context where their inferiority is just a good joke and the resulting humiliation is considered something like a blow for truth and "good clean fun."
That way if someone is being a jerk, many people can all confirm he's being a jerk.
Since women are such a minority in tech, they are sometimes subject to this sort of mob scene. Unless you've been in those shoes, it would be difficult to understand.
This just makes me sad for the industry as a whole. Unbelievable that in today's world women have to put up with this. Guys, want to know how you can help change these kinds of attitudes? When you see/hear another guy make these kinds of comments, pull them aside and have a talk. Maybe it's a gentle reminder of how hurtful and counterproductive these kinds of attitudes are, or maybe it's a forceful "I never want to h…
I think it has to be immediate and public. That doesn't mean severe or disrespectful. Everyone has to do it, but it certainly should be set up from the top down that this is unacceptable and will stop. I take a page from the Results Only Work Environment: http://www.rowe.iambestbuy.com/sludge_busting.html
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>(for instance: job interviews in which she was shown pictures of her interviewer's bare ass; I was, fortunately for all involved, in a different state when that happened) Why? Because you would have beat his ass? Cause you would have shown him what happens when he comes on to your woman? You would have had an unkind word with him? Do you not believe your wife can handle herself? Trying to bash down a gender role by…
Ridiculous. Coming to your partner's defense is not a matter of gender, but one of loyalty. Reverse the genders in this case and the threat still applies.
The brainwashing gets us all. It's sad when it gets us while we're trying to be supportive. The proper expression is "I was horrified and angered by it," not "I will respond to this by aggressive behavior not that much unlike what the other dude did". And proper response to someone noticing it is, probably, "oh... um, I didn't think about it like that, thanks, sorry", not "but I had good intentions!!!"