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Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

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Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#181

Post by jacquesm »

Fluorescence wrote: post #159
anvuong wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how this is accessible, the drive-shaft is entirely customly designed and customly built to handle the torque. That's not even mentioning the 3D design software and laser cutting for the motor mount. This feels simple because he already has everything planned very well and it's a year long endeavour compactified into short youtube videos.

Heh, of course, I'm just taking the mickey out of myself. It avoids the car things that make me I'm know out of my depth: carburettors, gearboxes, firing patterns and such. Those come from a mysterious world I have no experience with. If imagining a kit car then you won't be worrying about the custom designed elements you highlight.

The first time you mess up with a 90Ah pack and a serious electric motor will make you wish for carburettors.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#182

Post by jacquesm »

saintkaye wrote: post #113
bdcravens wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a thing. A hobby project I've wanted to do is to convert older cars to electric. The more iconic, the better, for troll value :-)

I’m begging for a 1969 SL180 converted to electric. How do we do it?

Please, please, please don't. Any of those beauties should simply be restored or used to help others to be restored. There are so few of them left.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#183

Post by seabird »

anvuong wrote: post #146
Fluorescence wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found the JerryRigEverything project converting an ex-military hummer to an EV interesting despite not really being into cars/evs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxkPuEmIX4U&list=PL0vZL9uwyf... Despite the untold expense and full on car workshop... it felt very accessible and possible. Ridiculous hubris on my part obviously hah! I doubt I could change a tire on humvee without help.

I'm not sure how this is accessible, the drive-shaft is entirely customly designed and customly built to handle the torque. That's not even mentioning the 3D design software and laser cutting for the motor mount. This feels simple because he already has everything planned very well and it's a year long endeavour compactified into short youtube videos.

I don't see why 3D design software and getting parts fabricated (if you don't have the equipment to do it yourself) is all that inaccessible. It may cost more than getting into computer software, but just about everything is. It may not go very quick but there's nothing stopping you from doing this.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#184

Post by michaelmrose »

forgottenlogin9 wrote: post #180
michaelmrose wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is easier than you think. If more people are apt to be disadvantaged by your actions than not why shouldn't they simply vote your rights away? As a business person in any industry this is already true in 1000 mostly reasonable ways that mostly derive from outrageous behavior of prior actors in your space. In that context it seems ridiculous to argue against 1001 on principle unless the specific regulation is its…

You are advocating for “mob rule”. History is replete with examples of this being a bad idea.

mob rule /ˌmäb ˈro͞ol/ noun noun: mob rule

    control of a political situation by those outside the conventional or lawful realm, typically involving violence and intimidation.
I'm advocating for regulating industry for the greater benefit of the overwhelming majority of society as is already practiced in every developed nation on earth. You already can't build a house or sell a sandwich without following half a hundred regulations which are written in the ashes if a million poor fuckers who were maimed, killed, or fucked prior to yourself. If you exist in the modern business landscape you have internalized this and accepted it as the cost of doing business. Nobody gives every a little fuck if for instance you think your sandwich shop doesn't need health inspections or your workers don't need food handlers cards or if you would like to sell houses that don't meet building codes.

If we mutually understand that is literally how the world works everywhere then going back and pretending that society needs to justify "taking away Elon's rights to sell consumer hostile cars" then we are being intellectually dishonest. The same way you are being intellectually dishonest by denigrating simple democracy as "mob rule".

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#185

Post by brandonagr2 »

Transpire7487 wrote: post #32

No normal person can repair a Tesla, it’s basically a trade secret. My brother is a mechanic and servicing Teslas are a non starter due to the complexity. The notion that I can just download a manual, buy some parts and DIY my own repairs is absolutey ludicrous. The only reason for Tesla to support right to repair is to increase regulatory burden on competitors, stunt innovation and raise costs for their competition.…

Go to service.tesla.com, login with a free account, you can access all repair information and service manuals for free. You absolutely can download a manual, buy some parts, and DIY

https://service.tesla.com/user/vehicle-models/ModelS

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#186

Post by c-cube »

forgottenlogin9 wrote: post #179
c-cube wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rights to impose your will about something, should end at the point where you sell this thing to someone else. That's how it should be. Sadly a lot of companies are trying to rent rather than sell (see: ebooks, anything as a service, etc.) because this way they don't lose control.

What if a buyer wants to lease the product under the seller’s terms. Should it not be their right to enter that agreement?

That's called renting, not buying. There's no buyer in that case. And that's exactly the rent-seeking trend I talk about. Most virtual "purchases" are actually just rent because you don't actually own the thing.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#187

Post by blamazon »

lelanthran wrote: post #169
blamazon wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small nit: I can 'jump' (read: charge the battery of) other cars with my model X, as long as the other car is an ICE car. In the frunk there is a panel that pops off and underneath there are (unlabeled) 12V and ground terminals that I can put jumper cables on. However, I have had to get my car towed a mile to a charging station before, I really deeply wish I could have received a jump then.

> Small nit: I can 'jump' (read: charge the battery of) other cars with my model X, as long as the other car is an ICE car. In the frunk there is a panel that pops off and underneath there are (unlabeled) 12V and ground terminals that I can put jumper cables on. "Jump" isn't the same as "charging the battery" of other cars. You can charge a 12v car battery with as little as 4A if you're willing to wait. Jump starting…

Another commenter already pointed that out about the word jump, you can reference that comment for my reply. On the second point, I can comfortably pull 50-100 amps for an inverter from those terminals. I believe the DC-DC is 2500W on my car - I have an early model X which is over specified in many regards. It does not take long to charge an ICE battery enough to be able to turn a starter.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#188

Post by echelon »

pixl97 wrote: post #163
kibwen wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's already legal in the US to build your own car from scratch. There are certain minimum safety requirements (headlights, windshields, seatbelts, bumpers), but less than you may think (e.g. doors are not required, the steering wheel doesn't have to be on the left). The NHTSA isn't going to ask you to prove your car's crash-safety, all you need to do is pass inspection in your state.

It's legal to build it, but at least in Texas it's not legal to drive it on the highway as you won't be able to get registration. https://ftp.txdmv.gov/pub/txdot-info/vtr/title_manual_book_4... >On page 376, under 'Eligibility for Title' it says "Homemade vehicles are not eligible for title or registration. Homemade vehicles are described as vehicles that were not previously manufactured by a NHTSA approved manufactu…

Georgia is extremely friendly with it, and I know lots of people with garage projects. You'll frequently see these cars on the road.

(I also know people building planes in their garage. I think Georgia just has a lot of this.)

https://dor.georgia.gov/assembled-and-unconventional-vehicle...

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#189

Post by pixl97 »

forgottenlogin9 wrote: post #178
pixl97 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Where do your rights begin and another’s end? This idea of a nice binary black and white cutoff for rights does not, and has not ever existed. This really is an absurdist American viewpoint. Let's make an example "it's my legal right to pour a cup of water out on my property" And, no one would really disagree with that. "So I'm going to do it with a million cups of water all at once" In which a flood happens destroy…

The concept of rights is not binary, but at a certain point there cannot be multiple conflicting “rights” — 1 must get preference. The maker starts with a right to make a product as they see best. The buyer has a right to purchase or not. The “public’s” rights are an interesting concept.

>The maker starts with a right to make a product as they see best.

I'm pretty sure we're not even on the same planet at this point. If you think this is true, go produce some products as 'you see best' and see how long before you end up in criminal/civil court. There are myriads of regulations on what you can and cannot put in products that are sold to others. To think otherwise is a level disillusionment that only the most staunch libertarians reach.

The public has rights, the market is not a free for all do to whatever you'd like.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#190

Post by kelnos »

tegmark wrote: post #35
echelon wrote: post #4

Since EVs are mechanically simpler, I'd really like to see a return to kit cars. Perhaps you could buy the preassembled chassis and modify the rest of the car as you'd like. Maybe you could tear down the whole thing and rebuild it. In theory this should be super accessible. You might see a whole community spring up over it. It's potentially a huge market ranging from teenagers to retirees. Lots of people love cars an…

this is the ignorance that drives these silly headlines. building these things is very hard. theres all kinds of crazy solvents and adhesives. the pack is structural. the product that tesla builds is fundamentally not well suited to repair or modification and tesla isnt under any obligation, on any level, to prioritize people who like to imagine they could repair or build a tesla over building the most excellent and…

Being responsible for making EVs popular does not give them the right to do whatever they want.

Tesla didn't push EVs out of the goodness of their hearts. They did so because they thought they could build a profitable company. Tesla's execs and shareholders are being compensated quite well already for their investment of money/time/work. No need to give them a blank check to do anything we (as a society) don't want them to do.

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