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Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

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Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#141

Post by creeble »

softfalcon wrote: post #136
javajosh wrote: post #3

Rather than us fighting for the right to repair, shouldn't manufacturers be fighting for the right to limit our ability to repair? Isn't "right to repair" the default state? The right to repair, modify, disassemble, recombine your own property is a key component of capitalism, is it not?

Have a look at Louis Rossmann’s car repair videos. There is a war going on between government and car manufacturers because they succeeded in side stepping most of the right to repair requirements. Currently, most new car’s OBD2 ports are somewhat useless because they now use a proprietary wireless communicator to transmit error codes. Apparently, the old right to repair laws didn’t say anything about “wireless commu…

I think new cars are still required to report engine codes (ones that cause the CEL to trigger) on the OBD port. That’s still a large percentage of engine problems, and in particular, the ones that prevent you from getting registration renewed in many US states.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#142

Post by runnerup »

Retric wrote: post #140
runnerup wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be surprised if solar panels in the roof were less than $2,000. An android-auto enabled head unit is like $500. Heated seats are often $1000 and that's "just" resistive wire. A cover for your truck bed is like $700. Premium carpet mats are $250. Unlocking your tailgate using a remote beeper instead of a physical key costs $300. > IMO solar roofs are useful at the low end for ~400$ So I agree with this, but I don'…

Car options are priced independently from what they actually cost to manufacture. A cheap luxury car will often include a host of features that cost quite a bit when you added as features to a lower end car. And sometimes it’s the reverse where missing features in luxury cars ends up being almost as expensive as the cheap cars they come standard in. It’s a combination of price discrimination and the overhead of havin…

Yep. So I’m expecting it to cost me $2,000 as the consumer, and I wouldn’t want to spend that. If costs some trivial amount, I’d love to have a battery that basically never dies.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#143

Post by dundarious »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #10

>Among the auto blogs that covered the announcement, few pointed out the hollowness... Regurgitation via a Google news search link cites absolutely nothing. Its the sloppiest journalism I have ever seen on any tech website.

What makes you think looking at that google news search was the extent of the research they did to justify that assertion? Journalists typically do not show all their workings (though they could always show more). To me, the link is obviously just a moderately useful stepping stone/prompt for people to research the point themselves.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#144

Post by rnk »

bdcravens wrote: post #94
rnk wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree these situations can be dangerous and frustrating. There is a manual trunk release on the tesla, here's a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1bJ0F3R0Nc . I have a rivian and the 12v battery died on it while I had it plugged in charging at home. In the manual I found the emergency trunk release (access from underneath the car), and then there was a manual release for the charging port inside the frunk. My…

Many EVs still have a physical key to open the car (my EV6 and my wife's ID.4 both do for example)

Well that's great, my Tesla and my rivian do not have physical keys, and I wish they did.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#145

Post by starbase »

mozman wrote: post #102
starbase wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Right to repair should be a full set of instructions for "everything" Tesla provides that (and more) for free: • Service Manual, Parts Manual, and Body Repair • Tooling Catalog and Wiring Diagrams • Service Bulletins • Labor Codes and Times • Service Mode Diagnostic Software (on the touchscreen)

Does Tesla sell parts? If so, do you need a Tesla tool to program/activate them? Electronics fail more often than mechanical parts and even today with independent auto shops having access to manufacturers programming software you still have to go to the dealer for some things

Yeah they sell parts at service centers or you can order through the app.

Most parts pair automatically and can be calibrated by putting the vehicle in Service Mode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e1_xr81l38

Repair shops that buy high voltage batteries have to pass safety training.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#146

Post by anvuong »

Fluorescence wrote: post #39
echelon wrote: post #4

Since EVs are mechanically simpler, I'd really like to see a return to kit cars. Perhaps you could buy the preassembled chassis and modify the rest of the car as you'd like. Maybe you could tear down the whole thing and rebuild it. In theory this should be super accessible. You might see a whole community spring up over it. It's potentially a huge market ranging from teenagers to retirees. Lots of people love cars an…

I found the JerryRigEverything project converting an ex-military hummer to an EV interesting despite not really being into cars/evs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxkPuEmIX4U&list=PL0vZL9uwyf... Despite the untold expense and full on car workshop... it felt very accessible and possible. Ridiculous hubris on my part obviously hah! I doubt I could change a tire on humvee without help.

I'm not sure how this is accessible, the drive-shaft is entirely customly designed and customly built to handle the torque. That's not even mentioning the 3D design software and laser cutting for the motor mount. This feels simple because he already has everything planned very well and it's a year long endeavour compactified into short youtube videos.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#147

Post by josefx »

ceejayoz wrote: post #65
FloatArtifact wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of it as like Android and unlocking the bootloader. There's a warning that it's running on modified system.

Except this Android can mow down a farmers market full of people if you get things wrong.

So can any vehicle that runs without software.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#148

Post by ceejayoz »

wizee wrote: post #80
ceejayoz wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this Android can mow down a farmers market full of people if you get things wrong.

People have been repairing their own cars for a century, and the world functioned just fine with it. This locking down is a recent phenomenon. Your car is not going to mow down people just because someone other than the dealer serviced it.

How many of those were capable of self-driving?

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#149

Post by ceejayoz »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #97
ceejayoz wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this Android can mow down a farmers market full of people if you get things wrong.

Which is another reason right to repair is so important, because carmakers can go out of business without all their cars ceasing to to exist. Someone finds an exploitable bug in a million cars after the only systems with the documentation and signing keys have been wiped and sold at auction, and what then?

That situation calls for an entirely separate set of legislation.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#150

Post by chmod600 »

MostlyStable wrote: post #90
SenAnder wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to all the legal restrictions on "reverse engineering" (i.e. examining how stuff works) and circumventing DRM, as technology advances, using technical means to restrict otherwise legal end-user activities is becoming a big problem. That you're legally allowed to repair your tractor doesn't help much if the on-board secure TPM chip flags your replacement parts as counterfeit, locks the engine, and reports…

This is something I've wondered about. For cars there is a bunch of regulatory stuff that might preven you from doing this, but I believe the regulatory burden on tractors is much less. Why has no one just built a full on control system swap for tractors? Yeah, the OEM control board won't recognize your replacement part. Or it won't tell you whats actually wrong. Etc. Etc. But if you just replace it with an entirely…

That sounds like a fun project if you are a bitcoin millionaire that moved to a ranch. Rip the components out and try to re-engineer all of the control systems.

Given the number of sensors, it could also be a great way to collect open data for farming innovation, environmental data, etc.

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