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Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

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Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#131

Post by callalex »

starbase wrote: post #85
marak830 wrote: post #29

I'm sorry I have seen the thread leads, and I cannot agree with them and think the replies do not get enough notice. Right to repair should be a full set of instructions for "everything" are available. That's it. Give the full specs for everything. If it's code reliant(which wtf), what does it require to work? That's. Fucking. It. We give you rules to say peeps cannot sell what you made, you make it so we can repair…

> Right to repair should be a full set of instructions for "everything" Tesla provides that (and more) for free: • Service Manual, Parts Manual, and Body Repair • Tooling Catalog and Wiring Diagrams • Service Bulletins • Labor Codes and Times • Service Mode Diagnostic Software (on the touchscreen)

You can’t even replace a smashed window on a Tesla without Elon’s personal blessing.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#132

Post by softfalcon »

echelon wrote: post #4

Since EVs are mechanically simpler, I'd really like to see a return to kit cars. Perhaps you could buy the preassembled chassis and modify the rest of the car as you'd like. Maybe you could tear down the whole thing and rebuild it. In theory this should be super accessible. You might see a whole community spring up over it. It's potentially a huge market ranging from teenagers to retirees. Lots of people love cars an…

I think this is a great idea and would massively improve repair-ability and possibly even affordability of EVs for everyone.

I also think that most car manufacturers will hate this idea since it directly competes with and shows how incredibly un-repair-able current vehicles are. They don’t want to change. They just want to pretend to change.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#133

Post by softfalcon »

extraduder_ire wrote: post #7
echelon wrote: post #4

Since EVs are mechanically simpler, I'd really like to see a return to kit cars. Perhaps you could buy the preassembled chassis and modify the rest of the car as you'd like. Maybe you could tear down the whole thing and rebuild it. In theory this should be super accessible. You might see a whole community spring up over it. It's potentially a huge market ranging from teenagers to retirees. Lots of people love cars an…

Would be nice, but the economics would be kinda wack with how much of the cost is in the battery pack. Especially when companies like tesla put the same pack in all their cars and determine your "capacity" in software. I'd imagine that would either change, or people would start buying up the lowest-cost EVs just to pull the battery out of them (like "shucking" external drives) and resell all the other parts.

My thought would be buying modular battery packs so you can start small, save some money, buy more, then just keep adding them in month-after-month.

Start with 50 km range at beginning, end up with 500 km range by the end of the year.

Would also enforce positive replacement and recycling procedures by creating a standard modular power unit.

Arguably doable, but I doubt any manufacturer or EV will ever tolerate such easy mod-ability or repair-ability. They live to destroy any attempts by the consumer knowing how to service their own property.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#134

Post by Fluorescence »

dylan604 wrote: post #128
Fluorescence wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found the JerryRigEverything project converting an ex-military hummer to an EV interesting despite not really being into cars/evs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxkPuEmIX4U&list=PL0vZL9uwyf... Despite the untold expense and full on car workshop... it felt very accessible and possible. Ridiculous hubris on my part obviously hah! I doubt I could change a tire on humvee without help.

For those that know they will be interested and not disappointed by this tease of a video, here's the playlist to all of the videos of the conversion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jnhh1P86vQ&list=PL0vZL9uwyf...

This might be a youtube thing... but as far as I can tell, I linked to the first video in the playlist and you have linked to the last. It looks like the playlist is in the reverse order? i.e. it will play newest to oldest. God I hate yt.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#135

Post by forgottenlogin9 »

sinistersnare wrote: post #78
javajosh wrote: post #3

Rather than us fighting for the right to repair, shouldn't manufacturers be fighting for the right to limit our ability to repair? Isn't "right to repair" the default state? The right to repair, modify, disassemble, recombine your own property is a key component of capitalism, is it not?

No, we no longer have that right. We don't live under capitalism but 'necrocapitalism' that only gives rights to those in the in-group. We must fight for our rights now, they have been alienated from us.

Where do your rights begin and another’s end? If they wish to build a product in a way that you dislike, does it not impede their rights for you to inflict your will on them against their wishes?

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#136

Post by softfalcon »

javajosh wrote: post #3

Rather than us fighting for the right to repair, shouldn't manufacturers be fighting for the right to limit our ability to repair? Isn't "right to repair" the default state? The right to repair, modify, disassemble, recombine your own property is a key component of capitalism, is it not?

Have a look at Louis Rossmann’s car repair videos.

There is a war going on between government and car manufacturers because they succeeded in side stepping most of the right to repair requirements.

Currently, most new car’s OBD2 ports are somewhat useless because they now use a proprietary wireless communicator to transmit error codes. Apparently, the old right to repair laws didn’t say anything about “wireless communication” so they took the loophole and ran with it.

The days of buying a reasonably affordable scanner and diagnosing and repairing your own vehicle are over. We’re back to square one of forcing them to give us right to repair again. It’s actually really really bad.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#137

Post by dylan604 »

Fluorescence wrote: post #134
dylan604 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those that know they will be interested and not disappointed by this tease of a video, here's the playlist to all of the videos of the conversion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jnhh1P86vQ&list=PL0vZL9uwyf...

This might be a youtube thing... but as far as I can tell, I linked to the first video in the playlist and you have linked to the last. It looks like the playlist is in the reverse order? i.e. it will play newest to oldest. God I hate yt.

After starting to watch the link I found, I realized it was reversed too. Even though it says "in order" from his profile's page. I've never really used YT for anything other than one off videos, and only recently started trying to watch some content in a more consumerist manner. I'm not liking it at all, and wonder why people put up with it, and don't just stop like I'm already considering

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#138

Post by sangnoir »

DrFlipper wrote: post #61
javajosh wrote: post #3

Rather than us fighting for the right to repair, shouldn't manufacturers be fighting for the right to limit our ability to repair? Isn't "right to repair" the default state? The right to repair, modify, disassemble, recombine your own property is a key component of capitalism, is it not?

Freedom is the key component of capitalism, in the purist sense. Including the freedom to trade the "right to repair" for other benefits, such as a superior vehicle due to higher integration, reliability and peace of mind knowing that any work will have been done by authorised repairers, lower up-front cost afforded by vendor lock-in, etc. If people wish to voluntarily trade vehicles without the "right to repair", th…

> Freedom is the key component of capitalism, in the purist sense.

Competitive markets and price information are also key components of capitalism - and the "right to repair" enhances both. Empirically, manufactures don't like competing for repairs, and they also obfuscate the cost of those repairs so customers would never know the total cost of ownership ahead of time.

State intervention does not violate capitalist ideals when it enhances competition, I'll go further and say coercive monopolies are anti-capitalist. Just because I bought a widget from you shouldn't force me to have it solely fixed by you at a price of your choosing.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#139

Post by tomcam »

echelon wrote: post #4

Since EVs are mechanically simpler, I'd really like to see a return to kit cars. Perhaps you could buy the preassembled chassis and modify the rest of the car as you'd like. Maybe you could tear down the whole thing and rebuild it. In theory this should be super accessible. You might see a whole community spring up over it. It's potentially a huge market ranging from teenagers to retirees. Lots of people love cars an…

Love it. Want it. In the USA, the manufacturers would probably be sued out of existence when someone got killed or maimed in one, no matter whose fault it was.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#140

Post by Retric »

runnerup wrote: post #57
Retric wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2k is IMO a poor price point as it’s too much for the minimal utility but not enough for meaningful power. IMO solar roofs are useful at the low end for ~400$ ICE cars could top off their battery and run a solar fan to keep the temperature down when parked in the sun. Not a huge deal, but still a nice luxury feature. Or a significantly more expensive solar roof could add meaningful highway mileage per year. You both…

I'd be surprised if solar panels in the roof were less than $2,000. An android-auto enabled head unit is like $500. Heated seats are often $1000 and that's "just" resistive wire. A cover for your truck bed is like $700. Premium carpet mats are $250. Unlocking your tailgate using a remote beeper instead of a physical key costs $300. > IMO solar roofs are useful at the low end for ~400$ So I agree with this, but I don'…

Car options are priced independently from what they actually cost to manufacture. A cheap luxury car will often include a host of features that cost quite a bit when you added as features to a lower end car. And sometimes it’s the reverse where missing features in luxury cars ends up being almost as expensive as the cheap cars they come standard in.

It’s a combination of price discrimination and the overhead of having multiple different specs being manufactured independently of whatever the actual differences are.

> at least without some DIY aspect.

Solar car battery chargers already exist for less than 30$. I’m assuming the overhead of including it into the cars design and modifying body panels etc significantly increases costs. But it’s the kind of thing Subaru could add to every car for diversification without significantly impacting final price.

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