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Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

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Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#91

Post by naremu »

bagels wrote: post #38
marak830 wrote: post #29

I'm sorry I have seen the thread leads, and I cannot agree with them and think the replies do not get enough notice. Right to repair should be a full set of instructions for "everything" are available. That's it. Give the full specs for everything. If it's code reliant(which wtf), what does it require to work? That's. Fucking. It. We give you rules to say peeps cannot sell what you made, you make it so we can repair…

I think the biggest problem with Tesla is access to parts, much of the process (minus the computer bits) are easy to reverse engineer.

Even the need to "reverse engineer" something that you paid for and ostensibly own, though, is overwhelmingly insulting and in some ways (though obviously not technically legally, ethically) is basically directly challenging public perception of property ownership.

It's not even like it's say, a watch that I might actually need specialist equipment or knowledge to repair/maintain.

It's actually something I'm expected to at some point, be required of me, but is tactically not provided to me as to benefit a private entity.

And arguments can be made about who's ethical and economical burden it is to make documentation, but the fact is it'd just save an overall immense amount of societal time and productivity for those who already have the potential to provide documentation, to do so.

And so the expectation that we are left to our own devices on various forums and social media websites that may or may not be SEO'd by google to be brought to our attention with the right combination of keywords.

Is kind of baffling, to be honest. If it's easy for us, it should be even easier and quicker for them. Especially when most in many countries are unfortunately reliant on such things, many of them may not be reverse engineerers, or even versed in google-fu.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#92

Post by bdcravens »

Retric wrote: post #22
blamazon wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small nit: I can 'jump' (read: charge the battery of) other cars with my model X, as long as the other car is an ICE car. In the frunk there is a panel that pops off and underneath there are (unlabeled) 12V and ground terminals that I can put jumper cables on. However, I have had to get my car towed a mile to a charging station before, I really deeply wish I could have received a jump then.

That is the exact use case where solar roofs on EV’s become very useful. However you can “jump” EV’s, supply power to their 12v system and then charge off of another cars 120v plug, or a portable generator etc.

Solar roofs provide very little power, generating less than 5 miles a day in charge.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#93

Post by esjeon »

omgJustTest wrote: post #2

You can’t even jump another car with your Tesla, let alone do repairs.

Yeah, it's just a tiny compatibility issue, but it's really a bummer that you're sitting on enough electricity to power a house for days and can't even jump a car. It's gonna be great if we can utilize all the juice in our cars...

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#94

Post by bdcravens »

rnk wrote: post #82
anaganisk wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jump start? Pfft. The stupid car, got stuck with AC stuck on full heat, with a blacked out screen. Unresponsive to resets. I couldn't even open the damm frunk to remove the fuses, yeah okay I don't carry a 12v battery around with me to jump the frunk.(how difficult is it to give damm manual overrides for critical stuff) It was a rental so no access to Tesla app. Tesla Customer service refused to help, since it's a re…

I agree these situations can be dangerous and frustrating. There is a manual trunk release on the tesla, here's a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1bJ0F3R0Nc . I have a rivian and the 12v battery died on it while I had it plugged in charging at home. In the manual I found the emergency trunk release (access from underneath the car), and then there was a manual release for the charging port inside the frunk. My…

Many EVs still have a physical key to open the car (my EV6 and my wife's ID.4 both do for example)

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#95

Post by sgerenser »

scotty79 wrote: post #76
falcolas wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An EV has two power systems, 12V (typically) for the car accessories, and 120V for the drive motors. And if the 12V system is down, you can’t drive the car (can’t close the contactor that connects the 120V batteries to the system). So, in theory, you could jump the 12V system so you can engage the 120V system.

The design that allows 12V to completely discharge while there's charge in high voltage batteries is idiotic. I ran into that in Toyota hybrid. Why there's no manual override that enables charging of 12V battery? It could be under the hood and turn off automatically when the voltage in 12V battery is high enough.

Some Hyundai hybrids and PHEVs have this (I saw it in the original Ioniq). It's a button you press that temporarily charges the 12V battery through the high-voltage system rather than being always enabled, but it seems like a great idea.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#96

Post by bdcravens »

echelon wrote: post #4

Since EVs are mechanically simpler, I'd really like to see a return to kit cars. Perhaps you could buy the preassembled chassis and modify the rest of the car as you'd like. Maybe you could tear down the whole thing and rebuild it. In theory this should be super accessible. You might see a whole community spring up over it. It's potentially a huge market ranging from teenagers to retirees. Lots of people love cars an…

It's a thing.

A hobby project I've wanted to do is to convert older cars to electric. The more iconic, the better, for troll value :-)

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#97

Post by AnthonyMouse »

ceejayoz wrote: post #65
FloatArtifact wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of it as like Android and unlocking the bootloader. There's a warning that it's running on modified system.

Except this Android can mow down a farmers market full of people if you get things wrong.

Which is another reason right to repair is so important, because carmakers can go out of business without all their cars ceasing to to exist. Someone finds an exploitable bug in a million cars after the only systems with the documentation and signing keys have been wiped and sold at auction, and what then?

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#98

Post by starbase »

blamazon wrote: post #31
amluto wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be cautious doing that. The analogous (I think) terminals hiding under the old Model S nosecone are not particularly thick, and you might fry something. Also, if they are fused (I don’t know whether they are) and you blow the fuse, then merely opening the doors of the car if anything else goes wrong with the 12V system becomes quite complicated.

Oh yeah, I take caution, but believe me, I'm no stranger to being locked out by an inoperable 12v system. Regarding the topic of the original post, it is infuriating to try to figure out which fuses do what in this car. It is information that is simply not provided.

It is provided at service.tesla.com. Wiring diagrams, service manual, etc. Sign in with your Tesla account to get the documents that match your VIN. It's free.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#99

Post by AnthonyMouse »

praptak wrote: post #20
javajosh wrote: post #3

Rather than us fighting for the right to repair, shouldn't manufacturers be fighting for the right to limit our ability to repair? Isn't "right to repair" the default state? The right to repair, modify, disassemble, recombine your own property is a key component of capitalism, is it not?

We found out that this is no longer the case since hardware can contain software which just prevents the "owner" from replacing a part. On top of this manufacturers abuse copyright laws to prevent "owners" from tinkering with said software. That's why we need specific laws to protect the freedom which should be the default.

No, I think there's a point here.

Part of the solution isn't just laws that require something to be reparable, but getting rid of the laws that constrain it. DMCA 1201 is used for this more than it's used for its ostensible purpose, and should have a general purpose exemption for any case where the circumvention or tool is necessary for any reason other than actual non-fair use copyright infringement.

Re: Tesla, Rivian Put on Fake Show of Support for ‘Right to Repair’

#100

Post by blamazon »

starbase wrote: post #98
blamazon wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah, I take caution, but believe me, I'm no stranger to being locked out by an inoperable 12v system. Regarding the topic of the original post, it is infuriating to try to figure out which fuses do what in this car. It is information that is simply not provided.

It is provided at service.tesla.com. Wiring diagrams, service manual, etc. Sign in with your Tesla account to get the documents that match your VIN. It's free.

> free

Not for me, after signing in and prompting for my country, takes me to a page asking for 165 dollars for a one day access, 500 for a month, or 3,000 for a year.

Edit: oops, despite what I said above, after browsing around I think I found what you're talking about? Nice! TY! This is awesome! There are wiring diagrams!

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