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When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

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Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#281

Post by johndhi »

mulmen wrote: post #191
johndhi wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the manager told the IC to deprioritize what I'm asking for, the IC should tell me that. If the IC tells me that, I'll consider that in what I write about the IC. Also - I'm not necessarily advocating for praising in front of others in every case. In some cases that makes sense, in some cases it makes sense just to send a message to the manager directly.

This is a ridiculously entitled position. You have your perception and are acting on it without considering the consequences to anyone else. Your risk-reward calculation is wrong in the worst way because it hurts someone else and you never feel the consequence so you never correct.

No, this is personal responsibility in action.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#282

Post by mcpackieh »

gabereiser wrote: post #4

>Ask if it’s ok first… This is very astute. Not everyone likes getting praise in public settings or they might not want their micromanaging manager to know they helped you outside the scope of their work. You should be cognizant of when praise should be given (i.e. when is it appropriate) and in what context as mentioned in the article. That said, if you aren’t thanking and praising your colleagues for doing good wor…

> “I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?” Instead of “Why didn’t you do it this way?”

Both of these are bad. Split the difference and drop the smarmy "I really liked how you tackled this," crap. That sort of thing makes you sound like a mother praising her toddler's scribbled drawings. Don't treat your coworkers like kids. If you want to know if they considered another approach, just ask them that without trying to softball it. "Have you thought about this approach?" If that's what you want to know, that's what you should ask.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#283

Post by wkjagt »

ori_b wrote: post #76
gabereiser wrote: post #4

>Ask if it’s ok first… This is very astute. Not everyone likes getting praise in public settings or they might not want their micromanaging manager to know they helped you outside the scope of their work. You should be cognizant of when praise should be given (i.e. when is it appropriate) and in what context as mentioned in the article. That said, if you aren’t thanking and praising your colleagues for doing good wor…

> If you are calling out your colleagues for doing bad work, or not the way you would do it work, you should try to rephrase into praise w/ direction. “I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?” Instead of “Why didn’t you do it this way?” I don't want to work with people that communicate this way.

I also hate this. When someone tells me they really like how I did something, when they clearly don't and only say so to package their criticism, I find it hard to take their criticism seriously because at that point I no longer know which parts are honest anymore. But it seems to be a cultural thing. I've noticed when I moved from The Netherlands to North America, that people here are often less direct, and actually appreciate the packaging. People seem to be more easily shocked when things are said in a more direct way. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but going from one culture to another it can cause unpleasant situations, on both sides.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#284

Post by [deleted] »

graypegg wrote: post #279
neilv wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're asking a question meant to make them reconsider their idea in a very round about way. How would you ask the question differently, if your intent was that you wanted to understand how they handled "{problem}"?

By not asking a question. “I think this won’t work because {reasoning}”. I’m fine being told that. If you’re working with level headed people, that starts a two way respectful conversation. Honestly that’s just my mileage I guess. Maybe it depends on everyone’s own personal attachment to their ideas, but if someone thinks I’m about to pull the footgun trigger, I want them to tell me that. If they’re right, they saved…

[deleted]

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#285

Post by alex_lav »

mulmen wrote: post #250
johnnyanmac wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comments here show they need to get a job that doesn't abuse them. You shouldn't be so scared of a compliment because it will be used against you by your boss or coworkers. You'll never get work done if you spend all your time looking over your back. EDIT: looking through the 2020 thread, it's intersting how different the conversation went, especially wrt stack rankging. It felt like it was focusing more on proce…

The issue here is that you are making a decision for someone else.

Only in the abstract, I guess. If you drop 5 dollars and I pick it up and tell you that you dropped it, I also made a decision for you, no? That you'd want to be informed of such things?

I believe that consent is good, and I believe that voluntarily crossing a person's boundaries is bad, but I also believe that participating in a society means we cannot entirely control all aspects of how we're engaged with and perceived. An employee talking to a vested party about an experience they had is a perfectly normal, healthy and expected behavior. The example we're talking about is even a positive! So some amount of "making a decision for someone else" (even though I reject that concept as existing here) is normal, healthy and expected.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#286

Post by ulizzle »

There's an obvious political slant here and likely some white savior syndrome. Is racism the reason why managers overlook some high-performers? And why would empty praise from a co-worker help any? What if the manager is part of an "underrepresented group" themselves?

Smart people hate being treated like children so you run the risk of offending them. That actually could offend someone for real.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#287

Post by mcpackieh »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #192
confidantlake wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phrasing seems confusing and manipulative. Did you like my approach or not? I would rather someone be straight up with me. If you don't like the approach or would have done it differently say so and we can talk about it. Save the compliments for when I do something you actually like.

>Save the compliments for when I do something you actually like. issue in cultures like this is compliments never come. Maybe a "thanks/good work" after the project/module is done, but by then it's empty words. feels more like "thanks for making me lots of money" instead of "thanks for contributing your skills to this project" if we treat compliments with a waterfall approach with no substance.

In the culture of prefacing every simple question with empty praise, then all praise becomes an empty formality. It's far worse than receiving a simple "good work" after the job is done. If you have to choose between the two instead of finding some reasonable middle-ground, then you should choose the one that entails treating your coworkers like professional adults instead of emotionally sensitive children.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#288

Post by mitthrowaway2 »

ulizzle wrote: post #286

There's an obvious political slant here and likely some white savior syndrome. Is racism the reason why managers overlook some high-performers? And why would empty praise from a co-worker help any? What if the manager is part of an "underrepresented group" themselves? Smart people hate being treated like children so you run the risk of offending them. That actually could offend someone for real.

It is introduced in the context of anti-racism, but the content actually seems more related to enabling a true meritocracy. It's hard to interpret that as a bad thing.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#289

Post by mcpackieh »

thegrimmest wrote: post #249
johnnyanmac wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Did you notice that "Why didn't you do it this way?" is rather less verbose than your alternative? "your code sucks" is even more concise. We can take a minute out of our time to elaborate and clarify, and of course not result to insults. >Managing emotional state should be the responsibility of the listener/reader, while the communicator's job should be to get their idea across as clearly and concisely as possible.…

> "your code sucks" is even more concise. It doesn't convey the same meaning at all though. One is a constructive criticism, one is not. Asking about reasoning for discarding alternative solutions is a perfectly standard part of any review process. It doesn't need to be further elongated and stylized to reduce directness. > "it's not my fault you feel bad about my abuse" Nowhere in my post did I justify abuse. Ad hom…

Have you noticed that the people advocating for emotional coddling in this thread also seem to have trouble with nuance? They pose this false dichotomy of "Wow I really love this but..." vs "This sucks go fuck yourself"

Simply being direct and forward without wrapping your words with empty praise or naked insults doesn't seem to be an option they recognize.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#290

Post by staunton »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #184
staunton wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, that would be "I think you did it wrong; of course, I can't claim to know that objectively; anyway, I really liked the way you did it"...

You sound wishy washy and you need to review your requirements, and/or rope in someone who does knows how to do it right in that case. There is nothing wrong with "this doesn't feel right but I don't have the capacity to tell". If you aren't qualified for that sort of code review, find the proper peer who can.

My comment was parody. Surely, nobody actually says things like that?
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