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When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

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Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#151

Post by bumby »

ori_b wrote: post #144
esafak wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a cultural and personal thing. Consider the recipient's preferences. If you would like to learn about these cultural preferences, read Erin Meyer's The Culture Map . https://erinmeyer.com/books/the-culture-map/

Yes. If you like that kind of culture, feel free to seek it out. I would not enjoy that kind of workplace, and if I accidentally join a place that leaned very heavily on that communication style, I would likely leave quickly.

There's something to be said to adapting to the environment rather than expecting the environment to fit your whims. Sometimes you should change your approach in the vein of being more effective at your job. Most reasonably sized organizations are going to have a mixed of people with different preferences; jumping ship every time the culture doesn't meet your ideal seems like you may end up switching jobs often enough to not have much of an impact. (I know job-hopping is a discussion all its own)

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#152

Post by koliber »

freedomben wrote: post #32
gabereiser wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Great work” is an outcome. “Great effort” is an effort praise. It can still suck and you can still have great effort. You can’t have Great Work and it sucks.

what's the difference between "Great work" and "I really liked how you tackled this" ? I assume it's a sports analogy for american football or similar. If you try to tackle an opposing player and you miss or do a bad job, "I really liked how you tackled " is clearly talking about the work, not the effort. If you were talking about the effort, it should be something like, "that was a good attempt!" It's kind of like,…

The latter provides a tiny bit more detail about what you are praising. It is still lacking in concrete details though and can be improved by adding more about what you liked about why you liked how they tackled it.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#153

Post by sensanaty »

gabereiser wrote: post #4

>Ask if it’s ok first… This is very astute. Not everyone likes getting praise in public settings or they might not want their micromanaging manager to know they helped you outside the scope of their work. You should be cognizant of when praise should be given (i.e. when is it appropriate) and in what context as mentioned in the article. That said, if you aren’t thanking and praising your colleagues for doing good wor…

I'd hate to get a condescending review like that, hell I'd prefer someone straight up saying it's shit and not elaborating than trying to beat around the bush like this.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#154

Post by madrox »

johndhi wrote: post #57

I disagree with the "ask first" suggestion. That's adding friction to the process that makes it less organic and will disincentivize actually doing it. Instead I will give feedback that I know won't hurt the employee I'm praising. There is an art to writing this stuff - usually making it more about yourself and how your problems are easier.

I understand where you're coming from; I've never thought to ask permission before. However, I think it's a good idea to honor the intent of this section and "read the room" before doing something that will affect someone else.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#155

Post by ori_b »

bumby wrote: post #151
ori_b wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. If you like that kind of culture, feel free to seek it out. I would not enjoy that kind of workplace, and if I accidentally join a place that leaned very heavily on that communication style, I would likely leave quickly.

There's something to be said to adapting to the environment rather than expecting the environment to fit your whims. Sometimes you should change your approach in the vein of being more effective at your job. Most reasonably sized organizations are going to have a mixed of people with different preferences; jumping ship every time the culture doesn't meet your ideal seems like you may end up switching jobs often enoug…

There's also something to be said for not working in environments you dislike if you don't need to. Especially since cultural mismatches grate and lead to underperformance.

Given that I have consistently gotten thanked for how I give and take feedback from colleagues, I think I will be fine on finding organizations that work for me culturally.

(Edit: And no, that praise didn't contain "but I wish..."es.)

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#156

Post by koliber »

user_named wrote: post #43
thenose wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all. The trick is to force yourself to find something about their approach that you liked. There's almost always something likable. It's also the trick to being liked in general. Not everyone cares about that, but I've found it more of an asset than a distraction.

No, it's absolutely horrible. It means you think the person you're talking to is dumb and can be manipulated with this phrasing. They see through you.

Not dumb. Human. It’s rare to come across someone who, after hearing by anything vaguely negative about them, is listening attentively to what comes next. Not saying that such people don’t exist. I can count the ones I came across in my 44 years of life on two fingers.

This includes people who directly said that they want to hear things in a straightforward fashion. This includes me, who also likes to hear things in a straightforward fashion. We’re wired in a way that we don’t even notice.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#157

Post by eweise »

ori_b wrote: post #76
gabereiser wrote: post #4

>Ask if it’s ok first… This is very astute. Not everyone likes getting praise in public settings or they might not want their micromanaging manager to know they helped you outside the scope of their work. You should be cognizant of when praise should be given (i.e. when is it appropriate) and in what context as mentioned in the article. That said, if you aren’t thanking and praising your colleagues for doing good wor…

> If you are calling out your colleagues for doing bad work, or not the way you would do it work, you should try to rephrase into praise w/ direction. “I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?” Instead of “Why didn’t you do it this way?” I don't want to work with people that communicate this way.

I do. Having worked with so many engineers with almost no social skills, I think there's a lot of room for improvement in their communication style. "Why didn't you do it this way?" is aggressive and critical. "have you thought about this approach?" makes them feel like you have their back and are trying to help. I agree there's not a huge need to the "I really liked how you tackled this" part but even never praising your coworkers is a an issue.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#158

Post by [deleted] »

ori_b wrote: post #76
gabereiser wrote: post #4

>Ask if it’s ok first… This is very astute. Not everyone likes getting praise in public settings or they might not want their micromanaging manager to know they helped you outside the scope of their work. You should be cognizant of when praise should be given (i.e. when is it appropriate) and in what context as mentioned in the article. That said, if you aren’t thanking and praising your colleagues for doing good wor…

> If you are calling out your colleagues for doing bad work, or not the way you would do it work, you should try to rephrase into praise w/ direction. “I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?” Instead of “Why didn’t you do it this way?” I don't want to work with people that communicate this way.

[deleted]

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#159

Post by mananaysiempre »

thenose wrote: post #15
whatshisface wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?” Instead of “Why didn’t you do it this way?” That crosses the line by lying, I think it would be better to say "I think it would be better if you did it this way." It's bad to call them stupid or make a superfluous claim of objectivity, but you don't need to pretend to smile and praise.

Not at all. The trick is to force yourself to find something about their approach that you liked. There's almost always something likable. It's also the trick to being liked in general. Not everyone cares about that, but I've found it more of an asset than a distraction.

> Not at all [a lie]. The trick is to force yourself to find something about their approach that you liked.

A lie is not always a falsehood; it is rather any use of communication with the deliberate intention of worsening somebody’s idea of the state of the world, and cherry-picking evidence (your “trick”) very much counts. I’d say it’s a very popular approach, even. You’re welcome to use a different word than “lie” here if you want, but my point is that either way the result is the same: the target is now worse off in their knowledge than they previously were.

In the spirit of Harry Frankfurt’s definition, bullshit is the same as a lie but instead the perpetrator wants to change somebody’s perception of the world with disregard to the actual state of it, not in contradiction to that state.

So from your description I’m not sure if your “trick” counts as lying or bullshitting: generally speaking, adjusting your logic or evidence to arrive at a predetermined conclusion is bullshit, but that you talk about a “trick” suggests an acknowledgment that you’re deliberately not communicating your best idea of reality, which would make it a lie.

But it’s definitely one of the two, and regardless of which it is I still think it’s quite bad, both in the immediate sense of not letting the other person (if you’re right) or you (if you’re wrong) learn, and in the sense of eroding the conventions of honest communication in ways that make it harder for others to learn in the future.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#160

Post by stcroixx »

jasonlotito wrote: post #123
ori_b wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are calling out your colleagues for doing bad work, or not the way you would do it work, you should try to rephrase into praise w/ direction. “I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?” Instead of “Why didn’t you do it this way?” I don't want to work with people that communicate this way.

> I don't want to work with people that communicate this way. "I don't want to work with people efficiently, and would rather cling to inefficient ways."

It’s not efficient to send 3 messages when only one is needed.
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