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When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

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Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#131

Post by AtlasBarfed »

agloe_dreams wrote: post #5

I disagree with the angle on this about asking and how to go about things but mostly because complimenting in context is helpful. When someone does great work, tell everyone, not just their manager. Do it in public and clearly in standups after they talk about what they did last day/week. "I just want to mention, that work that Joe did on that module is fantastic, thanks!" It is so easy to be a force for good. Being…

No good deed goes unpunished.

There are bizarre incentives in stratified hierarchical pseudo-authoritarian corporate social structures.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#132

Post by karaterobot »

agloe_dreams wrote: post #5

I disagree with the angle on this about asking and how to go about things but mostly because complimenting in context is helpful. When someone does great work, tell everyone, not just their manager. Do it in public and clearly in standups after they talk about what they did last day/week. "I just want to mention, that work that Joe did on that module is fantastic, thanks!" It is so easy to be a force for good. Being…

I think people are coming up with edge cases like "what if they helped you do something they weren't supposed to do, and complimenting them on it gets them fired?!", but that's an exception, and most people would use common sense and discretion in any reasonable scenario. As a rule, pass on a good word about people who help you, it's not that complicated.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#135

Post by joshuamorton »

freedomben wrote: post #108
hotnfresh wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Webster’s 1913 (as in, the 1913 edition of the dictionary) relates this sense as “grappling with”, as in wrestling, and provides an example from a Dublin University publication to illustrate this exact idiomatic usage we’re discussing. I’d say it’s not derived from American football.

thank you for sharing that (truly that is interesting data), but how do you know that GP was using the Webster's 1913 definition?

Because "tackling a problem" is about the approach. That's how the phrase is commonly understood. The Webster's reference is just backup.

Dictionary.com provides "Make determined efforts to deal with (a problem or difficult task)." As the first verb form, before the football/rugby definition.

Further, the hn guidelines suggest that even if there was more ambiguity, we should presume the strongest interpretation.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#136

Post by mananaysiempre »

grey-area wrote: post #77
whatshisface wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?” Instead of “Why didn’t you do it this way?” That crosses the line by lying, I think it would be better to say "I think it would be better if you did it this way." It's bad to call them stupid or make a superfluous claim of objectivity, but you don't need to pretend to smile and praise.

Your assertion that this sort of linguistic hedge is a lie is itself based on a few false assumptions: 1. That there is one correct way to do something 2. That you know that way, and they don't 3. That they didn't consider and disregard that way in early planning due to something you're unaware of What you see as lying is intended to avoid an arrogant disregard for their time and thought, and also to avoid having ego…

A few potentially false assumptions. The (very real) possibility of being wrong exists, but declaring that because of it nobody ever—or you specifically—can be right seems overkill and contradictory to the ethos of the engineering profession and the approach it uses for its chosen range of problems.

(I have the vague impression that people who talk along these lines usually think that being wrong is somehow a bad thing, or at least that even if they personally don’t others do and those others need to be accomodated.

Of course, while being wrong might not be pleasant, it’s absolutely necessary, and the harder the problem is the more times you’ll need to be wrong before you solve it. Thus shaming people for being wrong, especially in an educational setting, is one of the very small number of things that make me genuinely furious. Not telling people they’re wrong when [you think] they are because you think they might feel shame because of it is... not as bad, but still feels seriously counterproductive. I can’t say I have a grip on how to train or at least help others out of that shame, though.

Is your motivation different here? Because, I don’t know, you seem to say that telling others they’re wrong [about an engineering problem] always [or often] constitutes arrogance, and that is such an extrodinarily extreme position from where I’m standing that I can’t convincingly model it.)

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#137

Post by hotnfresh »

freedomben wrote: post #108
hotnfresh wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Webster’s 1913 (as in, the 1913 edition of the dictionary) relates this sense as “grappling with”, as in wrestling, and provides an example from a Dublin University publication to illustrate this exact idiomatic usage we’re discussing. I’d say it’s not derived from American football.

thank you for sharing that (truly that is interesting data), but how do you know that GP was using the Webster's 1913 definition?

I cited an old source to make it clearer that this is not a new sense, and that its entry into English probably had nothing to do with American Football, which existed in 1913 but was still far from being the sport of the US.

I’d have cited the OED instead, if I had access. I bet it’s got examples of this usage dating back to 1500 or something. It’s simply a sense of the word, now, hardly even figurative at all (as “grapple” barely is, in some similar senses, now)

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#138

Post by madeofpalk »

borroka wrote: post #129
ori_b wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are calling out your colleagues for doing bad work, or not the way you would do it work, you should try to rephrase into praise w/ direction. “I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?” Instead of “Why didn’t you do it this way?” I don't want to work with people that communicate this way.

It is the HR-motivated eternal infantilization of the people. In fact, to the person who went through mental and physical developments with no blockages or traumas, it comes across as a quite paternalistic way of communicating, but it is a style liked and embraced by corporate coaches, HR, and the informal CYA policies.

I don’t think it has to be that deep. The world is a big place, full of many cultures that operate - especially with giving criticism - very differently. You don’t need to master the tone of every culture, but it’s important to at least be cognisant that even these difference exist.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#139

Post by johndhi »

sethammons wrote: post #72
johndhi wrote: post #57

I disagree with the "ask first" suggestion. That's adding friction to the process that makes it less organic and will disincentivize actually doing it. Instead I will give feedback that I know won't hurt the employee I'm praising. There is an art to writing this stuff - usually making it more about yourself and how your problems are easier.

I let managers know about great interactions with their direct reports. It never occurred to me to ask. I may start doing so. But this reason for not doing it boils my blood: > One person mentioned that they got reprimanded by their manager for getting a spot peer bonus for helping someone on another team. This is a hill I will die on: people at $this_company are a team and helping one another is critical in building…

To me, the text you quoted is a separate issue/topic.

If a manager is that horrible, then it's time to give negative feedback to THEIR manager. Just like I don't ask before I send a Slack message to someone about a work-related topic, I also don't ask before I send HR-related praise.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#140

Post by rewmie »

gabereiser wrote: post #4

>Ask if it’s ok first… This is very astute. Not everyone likes getting praise in public settings or they might not want their micromanaging manager to know they helped you outside the scope of their work. You should be cognizant of when praise should be given (i.e. when is it appropriate) and in what context as mentioned in the article. That said, if you aren’t thanking and praising your colleagues for doing good wor…

> If you are calling out your colleagues for doing bad work, or not the way you would do it work, you should try to rephrase into praise w/ direction. “I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?” Instead of “Why didn’t you do it this way?”

Why are you telling your colleagues you "really liked" how they did something when you feel the need to call them out for "doing bad work"? It comes off as cynical backstabbing.

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