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How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

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Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did we end up at a point where creating life (literally) is a „not good enough reason“?

Was it ever considered such a great joy or just another of life's many tasks?

In old literature, being "barren" was seen as a heart breaking tragedy for women. And countless references to children as a treasure and a blessing.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The limit is basically gone now so at least that is a non issue.

It’s still there. The limit is currently four (with exceptions). I’m pretty sure the mere existence of a limit sends a message.

Yeah but that's basically non issue now because many people vote for 0.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#123

Women in the workplace was a mistake

Is that what you mean, or do you mean that building a society where both parents need to work in order to survive has distracted us from important parts of life that result in a healthier society?

Perhaps one parent working and one at home with plenty of time for both parents to relax and spend time with their family is the key, but that doesn't mean that the man should work and the woman should stay home (or that both parents need to be different genders).

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#124
post #91
post #85

South Korea is just the most extreme example of the global trend of below replacement rate and still decreasing fertility: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rate#/media/Fi... Central Africa is pretty much the only remaining region with fertility>3. Even in pretty poor countries like Bangladesh, which I learned in school had unsustainability high birth rates are already near or below replacement rate ferti…

It's a simplistic thought, but I often have this optimistic impulse that dealing with stabilizing the birth rate is easier than escaping the Malthusian trap would be, especially with energy use/person generally trending up.

Longterm, it probably is. The problem is the transitional period. The reality of having a population with more elders and fewer working age adults will be absolutely brutal.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#125
post #77

I think all these studies skirt very gingerly around a big problem. Stressful work culture, lack of support for families (includes high real-estate costs, long commute times, lack of sick leave, etc.) and most importantly a path for women (and men - but its mostly women) who drop out of the workforce and want to get back in once the children are older and more independent. Child rearing takes a group of people not ju…

I hope we one day see a radical new form of raising children. Historically it was truly a village that raised a child. I never understood how my parents raised 5 children. But looking into it more, there was always a community of people that raised me. Community and mutual aid was huge in the small town in Ethiopia where my parents came from. Coming to Canada, that didn't change. Uncles, aunts, older cousins, long ti…

Israel experimented with communally raising children within the Kibbutz system, but as far as I know the results weren't super encouraging and few places still do it

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly country in the world is now affected by low birthrates. Most developing countries aren’t spared by lower trending birthrates. The exceptions lie in Central Africa. The prevalence of these hormone disrupters aren’t limited to developed countries.

> Most developing countries aren’t spared by lower trending birthrates Most developing countries are developing . The countries that are developing more slowly (or are somewhat stagnant) are the ones that have the highest birthrates[1]. [1]: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/children-per-woman-vs-hum...

Yes, but even their birthrates are trending lower because they likely have the same pollutants if not more of them being exposed to their respective populaces. You have to look at trends and not just the current rates. It makes sense that they’re also affected, since developing countries do a large portion of manufacturing for developed countries

The age depopulation bomb is affecting everyone but Central Africa.

https://www.endocrine.org/topics/edc/what-edcs-are/common-ed...

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#127
post #116
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, the thing is that I cannot entirely shake the feeling that part of this stance is a certain laziness/complacency, essentially a lack of interest in any challenging activities. What I mean is: A lot of the people who come down against child-rearing for lifestyle reasons assign a lot of value to things they'd rather do instead because they provide "great experiences I'd miss out on because I won't have time or mon…

> But doesn't raising kids also provide a big set of exciting experiences you are trading-of against? Maybe for you, but the value proposition isn’t there for me. There’s no indication that the world is willing to fix its global problems (climate change, housing problems and etc.), why would I also subscribe my child to this “fun”? It is weird to write that sentence, as I am generally a fairly optimistic person. But…

The "challenging activity" stuff comes from the fact that my brain just can't compute the "I'd rather have all these great experiences than having kids"-type statements and not seeing any potential for great experiences in child-rearing, especially when those experiences often seem to be a lot more copy-paste.

"Challenging" also maybe doesn't quite capture what I meant. Do you know how you sometimes have to bike somewhere two hours on a slow, heavy MTB that makes it a slog for a 15min downhill descent? It's more that kind of challenge.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#128
post #93
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed completely, but I’ll add another point. About 50% of my friends are university+ educated women of different ethnicities, but all living in first world countries. We’re also all in our late 20s or 30s, so it’s becoming a “now or never” kind of dilemma for some of them. We used to make “oh it’s expensive!” excuse until we started making decent money. Now that excuse doesn’t work, but there has been a significant…

See, the thing is that I cannot entirely shake the feeling that part of this stance is a certain laziness/complacency, essentially a lack of interest in any challenging activities. What I mean is: A lot of the people who come down against child-rearing for lifestyle reasons assign a lot of value to things they'd rather do instead because they provide "great experiences I'd miss out on because I won't have time or mon…

There are lots of things people prefer doing that arent the best for them.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I care for my children because they need it and are mine, not because they are my preferred hobby.

I don't doubt that, but speaking as someone building a non profit in stealth that covers the cost of permanent birth control for folks who can't get it completely covered by health insurance (or who have to rely on medical tourism to obtain it), I've spoken to many folks who adamantly don't want children and not because they are lazy or don't want a challenge. Kids are a choice, not a mandatory checkbox. That is the…

> Kids are a choice, not a mandatory checkbox. That is the thesis.

One I certainly agree with.

Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s

#130

This sounds like a study made from afar by just reading numbers without even talking to Koreans. When I talk to Korean parents, the vast majority of them tell me that raising even one kid is exhausting. They usually try as much as possible to satisfy every requests of their baby: carrying the toddlers for hours until they fall sleep, letting their kids sleep in the parents bed until they're 6, spoon-feeding them unti…

TIL SK babies are needier than babies in rest of the world.
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