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Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

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Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#181

Post by dangerlibrary »

catiopatio wrote: post #114
RomanPushkin wrote: post #111

Corporations will do whatever they want to until we have unions in this country. Mass layoffs, termination with no reason, dictating how they want the workforce to be exploited. If this generation cannot see that, I hope younger folks or our kids will make this country a better place to live and work.

Asking salaried employees to spend three days in the office isn’t exploitative, and it’s certainly not equivalent to mass layoffs or termination without cause.

In many cases, asking salaried employees to spend three days in the office is constructive dismissal [0]. Those employees may have moved to places with cheaper housing. They may have multi-hour commutes, kids in new schools, and may have just paid the high fixed costs of a real estate transaction - because they were told they did not need to come into the office. It may be infeasible for them to come back, so they'll quit without needing to be paid severance.

As a sibling comment said - changing the terms of employment unilaterally is exploitative - I'm just providing some color to the same sentiment.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_dismissal

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#182

Post by wallawe »

A lot of complaining from one of the most privileged and highest paid classes of workers ever to exist in human kind. Talk of "exploitation", etc. To put it in perspective, you sit at a computer and type, and get paid $200k+ a year for it.

Forget other people in the other part of the world, just compare your situation to the average American for a second - they don't have a choice of whether or not to be at the office, because their office is our schools, our fire stations, our construction sites. And they get 1/4th the salary you do.

Entitlement doesn't even begin to describe it.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#183

Post by rco8786 »

offbyone wrote: post #158

If you want my cynical take, here's the real reason that Amazon and other big companies are all-in on RTO: the commercial real estate collapse that may (will?) happen if downtown office districts don't repopulate: https://wapo.st/3QXHpFT I think the reason that Amazon leadership isn't bringing data to support RTO is that not only are they aware of the "Urban Doom Loop” that this article is referring to, but I'd bet y…

> C-suite (S-team) has a significant investment in commercial real estate.

Amazon itself is holding ~$92B worth of buildings on its balance sheet, you can imagine a large chunk of that is commercial.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#185

Post by dopple »

boringg wrote: post #162
cr__ wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Changing the conditions of employment unilaterally is exploitative, especially within a system in which employment is required to maintain access to health care.

No it does not qualify as exploitative - is it a tough adjustment? Probably yes, exploitative? No. Your health care example has little weight unless you are in a one employer town as you can always find other employers if you don't like one as much as that process isn't great.

Don't like being exploited by Company A? Try being exploited by Company B instead!

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#186

Post by j2bax »

dangus wrote: post #135

This is so ironic coming from the company that benefits more than most others when society works from home. You know what’s close to the office? A bunch of not-Amazon brick and mortar stores.

Almost as ironic as Zoom reversing their remote policies.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#187

Post by dangerlibrary »

boringg wrote: post #162
cr__ wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Changing the conditions of employment unilaterally is exploitative, especially within a system in which employment is required to maintain access to health care.

No it does not qualify as exploitative - is it a tough adjustment? Probably yes, exploitative? No. Your health care example has little weight unless you are in a one employer town as you can always find other employers if you don't like one as much as that process isn't great.

Out of curiosity, what would qualify as exploitative behavior in your opinion?

Only situations where people have literally zero alternatives? Only situations where other employment alternatives meet your personal subjective threshold of "worse"?

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#188

Post by jochem9 »

s_dev wrote: post #144
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #128

I find the push for "back to the office" one of the most astonishing things to come out of corporate America. We've basically been moving to a model where people can work from home for a few decades. We're reached a point where it's not only feasible, but it's senseless to do otherwise for many positions. And then, suddenly and out of the blue, a lot of CEOs and upper management started demanding that employees go ba…

> I find the push for "back to the office" one of the most astonishing things to come out of corporate America. Surely the pattern here is: Back to Office Announcement --> Employees leaving voluntarily (No severance payouts) --> Lay-offs Announcement (Severance payouts) I thought it was just an easy way to get out of severance payments or this model too simplistic?

Sounds a lot more plausible than the theory that upper management is conspiring to protect their commercial real estate investments.

It does require that people need to be laid off. Not sure if that's still the case? Overhere in the Netherlands we have a huge labour shortage, including in tech.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#189

Post by Civil7598 »

UncleMeat wrote: post #117
mydriasis wrote: post #106

Read: Amazon CEO lays off its remote staff without severance

It is sort of the opposite. The people with remote contracts aren't affected by this. It is the people who have contracts that list a work location but who have been working remotely anyway because of workplace flexibility who are affected. Yes, it is a crappy situation and workplace flexibility should be way way way more common but it isn't laying off remote staff.

Nope. All of us with "Remote (State)" are told to move or quit. We had exceptions by VPs but are now told we need to get CEO or HR exceptions.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#190

Post by rco8786 »

wallawe wrote: post #182

A lot of complaining from one of the most privileged and highest paid classes of workers ever to exist in human kind. Talk of "exploitation", etc. To put it in perspective, you sit at a computer and type, and get paid $200k+ a year for it. Forget other people in the other part of the world, just compare your situation to the average American for a second - they don't have a choice of whether or not to be at the offic…

People are allowed to have opinions about their personal situation even if other people are in worse situations.
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