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Wet-bulb temperature

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Re: Wet-bulb temperature

#161

Post by dee-bee »

aidenn0 wrote: post #122
skyfaller wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate speaking negatively about Ministry for the Future, because I admire KSR, and we need fiction that confronts the climate crisis and shows people taking positive action to change the world for the better. Still, I sadly cannot recommend this book. To quote from my spoileriffic review, "This does not help us imagine realistic positive outcomes to the climate crisis. Robinson correctly diagnoses the threats we fac…

Indeed; terraforming mars is more likely than the end-game of Ministry for the Future.

The Mars Trilogy relies on a number of very idealistic characters to carry the politics specifically past what the earth was capable of, as well as unrealistically effective resolutions when violence does occur. But I really think you've chosen the wrong author if you're hoping for realism.

Re: Wet-bulb temperature

#162

Post by dee-bee »

blueboo wrote: post #50
skyfaller wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate speaking negatively about Ministry for the Future, because I admire KSR, and we need fiction that confronts the climate crisis and shows people taking positive action to change the world for the better. Still, I sadly cannot recommend this book. To quote from my spoileriffic review, "This does not help us imagine realistic positive outcomes to the climate crisis. Robinson correctly diagnoses the threats we fac…

Crucially, after it tip goes into the complexity of global diplomacy and consensus building, a special black ops team of super eco-terrorists effect the change that really needs to happen. It’s right at home with right-wing military fantasy, Frederick Forsyth-“to bear the baddies we need to be worse than the worst of em” silliness

Hell if we're calling reactionary politics a reaction to climate change, call me a reactionary.

Re: Wet-bulb temperature

#163

Post by Gigachad »

alangibson wrote: post #27
samcheng wrote: post #12

If you haven’t read it yet, the first section of Ministry for the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson describes a wet-bulb event in striking detail. The horror of this climate-change catastrophe is what finally triggers a significant global cultural shift around climate change. The passage was vivid enough for me to suggest preparatory measures to my retired parents. I wholeheartedly recommend the book to anyone intereste…

I stopped reading it because the premise is entirely unbelievable. A mass casualty event of pretty much any size would not lead us to do anything about climate change. For evidence, look at the deaths in the USA from gives and cars every year . Yet there is zero momentum toward doing anything about those from a policy standpoint.

The US is a worst case example. Most other developed countries also had major issues with gun and car deaths and have made major progress in resolving them.

Re: Wet-bulb temperature

#164

Post by [deleted] »

dingnuts wrote: post #66
mikeyouse wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. I didn't even mention climate change or weather? b. Your own source is making a different point that the one you're making.. > What they're saying: Climate scientist Zeke Hausfather summarized the volcano's contribution to 2023's record high temperatures this way: "So, not nothing, but only a small part of the story in the exceptional warmth the world is experiencing," he told Axios via email. > Andrew Dessler, a…

The Maui wildfire was driven by a hurricane, a weather event. Did you not mention that? The Axios article providing context and discussion around a topic -- some of which does argue in the affirmative for climate change -- is not contradictory to my post because I was not arguing against climate change. I'm arguing with your attitude towards the commentators on news stories, who you seem to view as ignorant, when the…

[deleted]

Re: Wet-bulb temperature

#165

Post by InSteady »

jpfed wrote: post #64
alangibson wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stopped reading it because the premise is entirely unbelievable. A mass casualty event of pretty much any size would not lead us to do anything about climate change. For evidence, look at the deaths in the USA from gives and cars every year . Yet there is zero momentum toward doing anything about those from a policy standpoint.

News media like to have stories they can focus popular attention on, and no one car accident (unless it kills someone famous) will matter to enough people to warrant broader coverage than one's local paper. Despite this lack of media visibility, there actually is some movement at the city level to change the design of roads to reduce the lethality of accidents. This isn't very publicly visible yet, I don't think, and…

Last year there was a local heat bubble that killed 69 people in my city. There was a bit of news coverage, but it hardly moved the needle in terms of local politics. Hell, the city can't even bother keep alive the trees it's recently planted nor stop pulling out more canopy to expand arterial roads in areas of the city that are heat islands due to lower than average tree coverage.

I think it's going to take more than hundreds of deaths to go beyond a few news stories that get lots of clicks for a week or two and talking points for politicians to bring up when it's convenient and forget when it is not.

Re: Wet-bulb temperature

#166

Post by InSteady »

alangibson wrote: post #92
jpfed wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are good examples of mass casualty events that didn't motivate effective responses. For both climate change and guns, there are people that want to keep the status quo as it is. I believe that popular arguments against gun control will be able to stay effective in ways that arguments against climate action will fail. First, one of the most popular arguments against action addressing climate change has been that…

> A mass-casualty event would make that argument less effective I would have bought this 10 years ago. But following the recent rise of conspricism, especially far out things like Qanon and Pizza Gate, I've come to realize that it's possible for vast numbers of people to just decide to believe something is/isn't true because it suits them.

Or Sandy Hook for that matter. Also, elsewhere in the thread people have mentioned comment sections on major news sites coverage of the Maui fires, and apparently droves of people are more interested in blaming clean energy installations, imaginary energy weapons, and Obama, Zuckerberg, and Oprah (of all people) than anything else.

Re: Wet-bulb temperature

#167

Post by InSteady »

adolph wrote: post #137
alangibson wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great example of my main point. Instead of fixing the real problems (availability of weapons and to some degree mental illness) we ban an accessory. Meanwhile elsewhere the bodies keep dropping.

Great example of moving the goalposts. You wrote "total lack of action" for which there is counter-evidence in the form of a national government action. With the same logic, one might as well claim that an entire firearm is an accessory to whatever is redefined as the "real problem."

This commenter also fails to recognize that there is a tremendous amount of political activity aimed at changing gun laws, and that represents real and earnest efforts on the parts of tens of thousands of people (or orders of magnitude more, depending on where we set the bar for having "done something").

It's true that our system of government and industry is set up to preserve itself and resist sweeping change. It is further true some incredibly wealthy and influential individuals within the system are aligned with those goals, making change all the more difficult and unlikely (this applies to climate change as it does to gun laws, car culture, throw-away consumerism, etc). It is a mistake to equate trying and failing to change massive and powerful institutions with doing nothing.

I get it, from a cynical and pessimistic perspective, doing nothing vs trying hard but failing to do something all looks the same in the end (when society is roasting canned spam on it's own embers, as we might imagine). But fatalism becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy, and mostly appeals because it has the "benefit" of requiring no action of the individual. Just a lifetime of depression, apathy, and/or moral bankruptcy.

Even if the fatalist is wrong, it means people made things work out for them in the end and they didn't even have to lift a finger. What a deal! It certainly has its appeal to those parts of our brain that we share with lizards and other creatures that look to avoid personal risk and conserve energy at almost any cost.

Re: Wet-bulb temperature

#168

Post by rexer »

dahwolf wrote: post #147

I personally believe that I've been in a short-lived "wet bulb" situation twice in my life. In both cases, in the Amazon, pretty much at the equator, at some of the hottest days of the year. 40-45C, humidity near a 100. A cold shower does nothing, it actually makes it worse as it activates your body to warm up. Stripping naked does nothing. Sweat just streams down the entire body as if a tap is open. It's near imposs…

Surely a cold shower helps? If it causes your body to trigger self-heating process, surely that’s proof your body has been cooled to less than dangerously high levels and the shower has provided at least temporary relief.

Re: Wet-bulb temperature

#169

Post by josiahpeters »

sokoloff wrote: post #143
gorbypark wrote: post #17

I worked as a snowmaker at ski resorts for most my my adult life before getting into tech. We always use wet bulb temperatures because it’s a representation of temperature and humidity. With extremely low humidity, you can actually make manmade snow at about +3 degrees Celsius. That was always fun but scary, because a small change in humidity can turn snowguns into water guns in the blink of an eye.

I’ve occasionally wanted to try snowmaking at home on brutally cold days. Any tips for someone wanting to try this at home? Let’s assume that I have access to tap water at 60psi dynamic pressure and air at 90psi and 10 SCFM continuous (more for short bursts if needed).

I did this exact thing this past winter. I spent about $100 on pipe fittings and purchased an external mixer DIY nozzle set from here: https://www.snowathome.com/our_products/SG3_e-type_nozzle_ki...

I made snow in my front yard a few times. I also completely covered my tree and car in a blanket of ice a few times too.

It was a fun little project to hack on.

Re: Wet-bulb temperature

#170

Post by gorbypark »

sokoloff wrote: post #143
gorbypark wrote: post #17

I worked as a snowmaker at ski resorts for most my my adult life before getting into tech. We always use wet bulb temperatures because it’s a representation of temperature and humidity. With extremely low humidity, you can actually make manmade snow at about +3 degrees Celsius. That was always fun but scary, because a small change in humidity can turn snowguns into water guns in the blink of an eye.

I’ve occasionally wanted to try snowmaking at home on brutally cold days. Any tips for someone wanting to try this at home? Let’s assume that I have access to tap water at 60psi dynamic pressure and air at 90psi and 10 SCFM continuous (more for short bursts if needed).

My only concern would be that your water pressure isn't high enough. In commercial systems, the air pressure is at 90-120psi, but the water pressure usually at a minimum 250psi (and sometimes as high as 900psi).

When the water pressure drops below the air pressure, you get what we called "the helicopter", where the snowgun pulses and makes a "whomp whomp whomp" sound (like a helicopter).

I have always assumed this is happening because the air and water are "fighting" each other and instead of getting a constant stream of mixed air/water you are getting a period of water only, then a period of air only. The snowgun will actually bounce up and down. We'd run into this a lot when trying to turn down the water really low on days where the temperatures were very marginal.

I have heard of people using pressure washers to up their water pressure.

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