Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Wet-bulb temperature

en.wikipedia.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 183 posts

Re: Wet-bulb temperature

#61

Post by calgarymicro »

whycome wrote: post #9
studmuffin650 wrote: post #2

in my opinion, a lot of folks won't take climate change seriously until it adversely affects their way of life in such a dramatic way that they cannot deny it any longer. A wet bulb event, occuring over multiple hours, would be that signal. Piles of dead bodies from folks who either were misinformed or weren't able to move to safety would be quite the wake up call.

The 1896 New York heat wave lasted 10 days and killed ~1500 people. And has just 2 short paragraphs in Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1896_Eastern_North_America_hea... ) > "This was 10 days [with temperatures reaching] 90 degrees at street level and 90 percent humidity, with temperatures not even dropping at night," https://www.npr.org/2010/08/11/129127924/the-heat-wave-of-18... It wasn't necessarily a wak…

> A majority of the deaths were of working-class men in their twenties who performed manual labor.

Seems like in this case most of the mortality was due to young men who had no choice but to work in those conditions. This event, among many other work-related disasters of the time, probably helped spur the push for better working conditions during the Progressive Era.

Re: Wet-bulb temperature

#62

Post by allemagne »

abeppu wrote: post #51
skyfaller wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate speaking negatively about Ministry for the Future, because I admire KSR, and we need fiction that confronts the climate crisis and shows people taking positive action to change the world for the better. Still, I sadly cannot recommend this book. To quote from my spoileriffic review, "This does not help us imagine realistic positive outcomes to the climate crisis. Robinson correctly diagnoses the threats we fac…

I agree that the plot repeatedly follows society making choices which I find implausible -- but if one reads that alienation (one's inner critic saying "this is not the world we live in") as part of the experience of the work, then it can function as a kind of compelling tool. Noting all the points where humanity in the book takes necessary and beneficial actions to improve their situation, that are available to but…

Is it particularly jarring to realize that central banks issuing a carbon-backed cryptocurrency will probably not save us from climate change?

Re: Wet-bulb temperature

#63

Post by generic92034 »

falcolas wrote: post #49
jncfhnb wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people have fantasies about these heatwaves that just decimate all living things. It’s not that simple. It’s not THAT hard to cool down even if you’re incapable of sweating to do so. People aren’t idiots either. Despite imaginations of cultural hubris, people can tell when it’s deathly, disgustingly hot, and do not casually tank it until they die. And even if they did, they’re not idiots. If one person collapses…

> It’s not THAT hard to cool down even if you’re incapable of sweating to do so. How would you recommend cooling down for hundreds of thousands of people at a time? I have to assume that those affected wouldn't have easy access to AC.

Also, can we all be sure that electricity will be available during such an event?

Re: Wet-bulb temperature

#64

Post by jpfed »

alangibson wrote: post #27
samcheng wrote: post #12

If you haven’t read it yet, the first section of Ministry for the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson describes a wet-bulb event in striking detail. The horror of this climate-change catastrophe is what finally triggers a significant global cultural shift around climate change. The passage was vivid enough for me to suggest preparatory measures to my retired parents. I wholeheartedly recommend the book to anyone intereste…

I stopped reading it because the premise is entirely unbelievable. A mass casualty event of pretty much any size would not lead us to do anything about climate change. For evidence, look at the deaths in the USA from gives and cars every year . Yet there is zero momentum toward doing anything about those from a policy standpoint.

News media like to have stories they can focus popular attention on, and no one car accident (unless it kills someone famous) will matter to enough people to warrant broader coverage than one's local paper. Despite this lack of media visibility, there actually is some movement at the city level to change the design of roads to reduce the lethality of accidents. This isn't very publicly visible yet, I don't think, and there's certainly very little in the way of public desire to drive less lethal vehicles.

I haven't read the book, but if the event the book describes kills hundreds of people or more, it seems like a plausible seed that news coverage can accrete around.

Re: Wet-bulb temperature

#65

Post by mikeyouse »

dingnuts wrote: post #58
mikeyouse wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the comment sections on any news story about e.g. the Maui fire or any other natural disaster are an indication - the world's response will be hyperpartisan conspiracy mongering involving random rich people (Oprah, Zuckerberg and Obama in Maui), shady groups of profiteers (developers and clean energy installers), and fictional tech (directed energy weapons and various "lasers) rather than the shortest moment of in…

If climate activists wish to change minds, they simply cannot react with apoplexy that after a generation of messaging about how "weather is not climate" that the new generation responds to catastrophic weather events with "weather is not climate" But of course, weather isn't climate. https://www.axios.com/2023/08/14/climate-change-heat-wave-ca... If climate activists only wish to broadcast how virtuous and smart the…

1. I didn't even mention climate change or weather?

b. Your own source is making a different point that the one you're making..

> What they're saying: Climate scientist Zeke Hausfather summarized the volcano's contribution to 2023's record high temperatures this way: "So, not nothing, but only a small part of the story in the exceptional warmth the world is experiencing," he told Axios via email.

> Andrew Dessler, a climate scientist at Texas A&M University, also thinks the significance of the volcano's warming role pales in comparison to human-driven climate change and other influences.

> Dessler likens climate change to a "rising tide" that is elevating the baseline temperatures from which heat waves begin. "This means that our heatwaves become hotter, essentially 'floating' on the 'rising tide' of our warming world," he said via email.

Re: Wet-bulb temperature

#66

Post by dingnuts »

mikeyouse wrote: post #65
dingnuts wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If climate activists wish to change minds, they simply cannot react with apoplexy that after a generation of messaging about how "weather is not climate" that the new generation responds to catastrophic weather events with "weather is not climate" But of course, weather isn't climate. https://www.axios.com/2023/08/14/climate-change-heat-wave-ca... If climate activists only wish to broadcast how virtuous and smart the…

1. I didn't even mention climate change or weather? b. Your own source is making a different point that the one you're making.. > What they're saying: Climate scientist Zeke Hausfather summarized the volcano's contribution to 2023's record high temperatures this way: "So, not nothing, but only a small part of the story in the exceptional warmth the world is experiencing," he told Axios via email. > Andrew Dessler, a…

The Maui wildfire was driven by a hurricane, a weather event. Did you not mention that? The Axios article providing context and discussion around a topic -- some of which does argue in the affirmative for climate change -- is not contradictory to my post because I was not arguing against climate change. I'm arguing with your attitude towards the commentators on news stories, who you seem to view as ignorant, when they are parroting exactly the messaging that the climate activists trained them to parrot.

Re: Wet-bulb temperature

#67

Post by ironlake »

aeternum wrote: post #55
cogman10 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hate to agree but yeah. We've already seen a number of deadly heat waves in Europe. In 2003, 70,000 people died in the EU from a heat wave [1]. A fact that is never really comes up in talks about climate change. The death toll could be millions and we'd still see deniers clamoring that we need to burn more coal for grid stability or whatever. [1] https://www.france24.com/en/environment/20230717-parisians-a...

More people die of cold than heat, a fact that never comes up in talks about climate change. Obviously there's a limit, but based on the data about lives lost due to cold vs. warm temps, we should expect increased global temps to first save human lives since a lot more people freeze to death.

And think of all the money we'll save on jackets

Re: Wet-bulb temperature

#68

Post by rpdillon »

alangibson wrote: post #54
jlmorton wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All life is a trade-off. There has been massive effort at reducing traffic fatalities, representing probably trillions of dollars of investment, including road design and barriers, speed limits, signaling, car safety features like crumple zones, seat belts, air bags, all manner of crash safety testing, enforcement actions, and much more. We haven't entirely banned cars, and carbon emissions weren't totally banned aft…

A massive failure judging by the numbers. Which is my point. We will continue to feel bad, maybe drop in some metaphorical traffic circles, but do nothing to actually solve the issue.

Vehicle fatalities per capita and per mile travelled have been dropping in the US for decades. As has the absolute number of deaths.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_...

Re: Wet-bulb temperature

#69

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

alangibson wrote: post #59
tchalvakspamm wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s aggregate deaths one at a time, though. If all the car deaths happened all at once in a localized area and took out half of Rhode Island, it would spur action.

Then explain the total lack of action after Sandy Hook, that Las Vegas shooting, etc

Most likely the politicians that belong to the NRA are controlling the narrative.

Almost all politicians are also owned by the car and oil industries, so that would explain the lack of action with the high number of RTCs.

Re: Wet-bulb temperature

#70

Post by prepend »

samcheng wrote: post #12

If you haven’t read it yet, the first section of Ministry for the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson describes a wet-bulb event in striking detail. The horror of this climate-change catastrophe is what finally triggers a significant global cultural shift around climate change. The passage was vivid enough for me to suggest preparatory measures to my retired parents. I wholeheartedly recommend the book to anyone intereste…

I found that passage pretty disturbing too. But my takeaway was that there aren’t any individual plans you can make unless you plan on hanging out in a body of water breathing through a straw for a few days.

What prep did you recommend to your parents? I’m interested for what I can reuse or adapt.

Post reply on HN